Heart Rate and intensity

[Omichron]

So, quick question. I realize that the intensity level is relative, with everyone having their own level ten. I was wondering if there was any heart rate considerations to take into account. In the book, it's described as "unable to take another step", which is where I pretty much was after minute 19 was over. My heart rate was also at 184, and had been around that area for a while. Being 28, my high intensity heart rate is (220 - 28) x .8 = 154 (and most of my workout I spent under that limit).

So my question is: should I stay at 154, no matter what my muscles tell me as far as being able to go further? Am I working TOO hard?

Thanks

[gnash]

Hi omichron..

HR management is a matter of conditioning level..well trained athletes like Statona have more latitude in max HR than a new trainee..It is a question of safety..

It is a good idea to keep the HR at max 80% for several weeks and let the body adjust, increase lactate thresholds, and get used to delivering blood and oxygen more efficiently...this takes some time and continuous training..

Best to play HR on the conservative side for 6-8 weeks, IMO..there really is no hurry and tomorrow is another day...

gnash

[Chris]

I agree with gnash...

BUT, if you are a strict by the book BFL'er then yes, ignore the heart rate portion and simply judge it on how you feel... and it turns out we are pretty good at matching up perceived intensity to actual heart rate.

[Omichron]

So I'm still a bit lost

I've been following the book fairly strictly, but the reason I was asking is exactly because apparently matching up the perceived intensity with my heart rate is something that just isn't happening.

I guess I'll keep myself at 154, but it just seems that I won't be getting the full value for my cardio workout?

[Chris]

Ahh, yes, if you decide to stay at 154, then you should do cardio for longer than 20 minutes. I'd start at 30 minutes for the first week then do 45 minutes thereafter.

[bigthunder]

i checked myself the other day, while on the bike. I was cruising around 140-150 on my lower levels, 163 on my level 8 intensity. On my final minute of giving it everything I had on level 15 over 125 rpms I was at 170. Not sure if that's good or bad, but it sure kicked my ass.

[Omichron]

Originally Posted by bigthunder

i checked myself the other day, while on the bike. I was cruising around 140-150 on my lower levels, 163 on my level 8 intensity. On my final minute of giving it everything I had on level 15 over 125 rpms I was at 170. Not sure if that's good or bad, but it sure kicked my ass.

Well, that probably means you're in better shape than I am

[Chris]

It's very hard to get your heart rate up on the bike. It takes A LOT of effort for me. I'd be happy (happy?) with 154 as a high on the bike.

[Rhone]

I'm a bit less conservative than Gnash and Chris on this issue. If you have a known heart condition, or if you are in such poor shape that you are already at the point where you're imminently at risk of a heart attack, or if you're elderly, then yeah, I'd recommend being really careful with the heart rate for a little while.

(Of course, no one wants to feel responsible for someone else's death (or to be held legally responsible, for that matter), no matter how unlikely, which is why every exercise book will tell you to check with your doctor first, and every doctor will probably give you overly conservative (if not outright incorrect) advice.)

But otherwise, seriously, I don't think there are many humans who have the will-power it would take to push their heart rate high enough--for long enough--to hurt themselves, and I don't think following the BFL cardio protocol would do it to you. How fit you are isn't about whether or not you can safely get your heart rate up close to maximum, it's about how long and hard you can exercise before you get to that point, and how long you can keep it up before your body forces you to stop.

I think heart-rate correlates very nicely with intensity levels... in my mind, intensity levels 7 and 8 should put you around 70-80% of your maximum heart rate (basically aerobic, but approaching the cut-off point between aerobic and anaerobic), your 9's should put you around 85-90% of your maximum heart rate by the end of the minute, and ideally you should be breaking 90% at the end of your 10.

I say "by the end" because you're probably not going to be able to maintain that kind of heart rate for a whole minute. At the very least you'd be slowing down quite rapidly after getting your heart rate that high.

Omichron, you said you're 28, which means your maximum heart rate is hypothetically 192 (I say hypothetically because there's some variation, not everyone's MHR is exactly 220-age just like not everyone's normal body temp is 98.6 Fahrenheit). If your heart rate got up to 184, that's nearly 96% of your max--IMO you should take that as evidence that you did a GREAT job hitting a very intense high point! Keep it up.

[Chris]

I guess my thing is I automatically think "running" when I hear cardio because that's my preferred style. That being said, starting out a running program with interval training is often a prescription for shin splints, stress fractures, and many other not-so-fun running injuries.. I know this from experience. If you are a runner, it is very important to take it "easy" early on.

Of course "easy" is relative because I also tend to equate high heart rate with overly taxing sprits (the danger zone for injury). IF there is ANY pain (I mean real pain, not just he fake stuff your body throws out to get you to stop) then slow it down and get on the grass (or the track).

[Marc]

When im doing my HIIT training i average 160bpm on the elliptical machine for 20 min and max out at about 182bpm for a short while when i'm hitting my 10's. When I hit 182 im breathing like an ox! Cant stay there for too long but its a rush getting it up there!

Burn baby burn!

[Rhone]

Originally Posted by Chris

I guess my thing is I automatically think "running" when I hear cardio because that's my preferred style. That being said, starting out a running program with interval training is often a prescription for shin splints, stress fractures, and many other not-so-fun running injuries.. I know this from experience. If you are a runner, it is very important to take it "easy" early on.

Actually, avoiding the shin splints and joint pain is precisely the reason I prefer high intensity intervals over steady-pace aerobics (aside from the former having more current research in favor of it and the latter being boring and monotonous (for me)). But now I'm starting to think our disagreement is mostly due to having something different in mind.

I think of running for cardio, too--that's what I've done for all of my BFL cardio workouts so far. I do have a couple treadmills, exercise bikes, and elliptical machines available to me in my apartment building, but I never liked them because they always felt awkward and unnatural to me.

However, with the extra weight I'm carrying, trying to jog for 20-30 minutes straight multiple times a week undoubtedly would--and has many times in the past--give me shin splints and pain in my knees and ankles. One thing I did in the past to solve that problem was alternate walking and sprinting. After a short warmup, I would sprint until my heart rate hit the high 80's or low 90's, then walk until it came down to the mid-to-low 70's, then sprint again, and keep alternating.

The wonderful thing about that is that while getting more anaerobic benefit than regular jogging, while keeping my average heart rate for the duration of the exercise at least as high (getting more aerobic benefit as well), my weight was crashing down on my ankles, shins, and knees far fewer times than they would have been if I was just running the whole time.

When I saw the cardio description in BFL last month, I couldn't help thinking "Hey, that looks like something I've done before..." So that's what I'm doing for my cardio right now, and what I would recommend for someone in the same kind of shape I'm currently in: I walk at an increasingly brisk pace through intensity levels 5-8 and run as hard as I can currently handle running for a full minute for my 9's and 10's. (Though the last 9, before the 10, is a little lighter since I couldn't keep up the pace of my other 9's for 2 full minutes... maybe I'm treating the first 3 9's more like 9.5's.)

So far I haven't had any pain, aside from the pleasant burn in my hamstrings.