HITT vs. traditional intervals

[Dulish]

OK... another question... in the past, when I'm doing cardio on a machine (i.e. elliptical or step mill) I will do "traditional" intervals... warm up for 3 - 5 minutes, then ramp up so my heart rate gets up to about 85% for a minute, then ramp down for a minute, and up and down one minute each interval for 20 minutes, then a five minute cool down.

My experience has been that the traditional method has increased my endurance and lowered my resting HR and my recovery rate has gotten VERY FAST (i.e. from a hr of 172 to a HR of 140 20 seconds after lowering the intensity) VERY quickly... like just a few weeks.

The HITT method is a more gradual ramp up over a few minutes, then one minute down, then ramping up again. I am finding this more boring LOL than the constant up and down, challenge and reduce, challenge, reduce.

What is the benefit of doing HITT over doing traditional intervals?? I am really curious about this as BP is so specific about the HITT in his book.

Thanks

[Chris]

I'm not sure about this one... but here's my best guess... I think the idea behind BFL's version of intervals is that you go through several levels of increasing intensity so that you are doing everything from aerobic to lactate threshold to VO2 max training all in the same cardio session. When you run traditional intervals it works more on the VO2 max end of things.

[gnash]

Dulish..

I think either way you want to do HIIT will work for you...You've been in top shape before, so you know your limits...However, interval training, as you know, can overtrain you quickly if you overdo it...I would watch out for symptoms in 6 weeks or more...and they can slip up on you before you know it..

And one more thing sugar, you are not as young as you were then...sorry to bring that up...HA!! Those endorphins can convince you that you are 25 years old...

gnash

[Rhone]

Coincidentally I tweaked my own cardio today a little similarly to what you're talking about. I wasn't going to mention it here until I gave it some time to assess the results, but since you brought it up....

The research on intervals that I've seen suggests that they lose some of their benefit if there is a lot of recovery time between intervals... there seems to be a more pronounced benefit from doing the intervals more frequently instead of letting yourself fully recover between them. (One of the more extreme examples of this is Tabata intervals--8 20sec sprints with only 10sec between them--a hellish 4 minute workout that produces better results than 60min of moderate intensity cardio!)

Now, with my current weight, I can only jog so much between my high points without hurting my joints and getting shin splints (I walk/run for my cardio). So doing cardio BFL style means I'm stuck speedwalking for 3 minutes between each interval, which IMO is not using my time as efficiently as I could be--my heart rate generally has dropped to the low 70's or high 60's before my next 9. (I did try switching to jogging instead of walking for my 8's on Saturday, but I started getting a tight feeling in my shins that I suspected meant I could expect to get shin splints if I kept that up.)

So what I tried this morning was this:

I put on a heartrate monitor watch (I hate that chest strap, but it's so helpful...), and warmed up by speedwalking for 5 minutes. I then ran (hard), getting my heart rate up close to 95% of max, and then walked until my heart rate almost decreased to 80% of max, which was my signal to start the next run. I kept that up for about 15 minutes, essentially bouncing my heart rate back and forth between low 80%'s and low 90%'s.

The positive: That was by far my most intense cardio workout since starting BFL. I think it will be more effective for me than the BFL-style cardio.

The negative: It was so effective that, for me, 15 minutes of it was too much! I checked my heart rate periodically after the workout and noticed that my heart rate stayed over 60% of max for over an hour after the workout, which I'm interpreting as a sign of overtraining (oops). I'm going to restrict myself to 10 minutes of the intervals (after warmup) on Thursday and keep track of my heart rate after that... if my body responds okay to that then I'll stick with 10 minutes for a while before gradually working my way up to 15. If I show signs of overtraining then I'll decrease the time further.

I think the risk of overtraining with more frequent intervals is possibly a reason why Phillips recommends the particular format that he does. The BFL book is aimed at beginners--not to say that there's anything wrong with the program, just that many in the intended audience might not be really careful about monitoring their body's response to the exercise, or knowledgeable about how to make adjustments if they overdo things. Also, most of the BFL audience is looking primarily for weight loss, which BFL cardio will accomplish... there aren't as many people out there looking for major gains in things like VO2max. The little weight-loss boost one might get from more shorter recovery periods between intervals might, in Phillips' mind, have not been enough to justify giving people a riskier program.

Or maybe I'm giving Phillips too much credit. Who knows?

[Chris]

Rhone: nice experiment. I like it!

I will caution you about doing too many intervals. If you decide that you like doing the quicker interval (bouncing your heart rate like you described) then I would encourage you to limit the number of times you rocket your heart rate in each session. I would say NO MORE than 7 times. Probably better to start around 5 and work up to 7 over the next couple weeks.
The fact that your heart rate stayed up is probably a signal of your overall cardiovascular fitness level. To me, this suggests a need to force yourself to stay around 60 to 65% for most of your run. Long warm ups and long cool downs.
Keep in mind too that weight training also helps you with VO2 max.

[Dulish]

I am loving this conversation!! Well, except for the bit about me being older now LOLOL... just for the record, I'm not one of those women who freaks out over age. It's a number and I'd rather keep getting older than the alternative

That said, I loved Rhone's experiment (btw, I love using the HR monitor... I like having some sort of NUMBER to refer to LOL)! I think that I am going to do shorter, up and down intervals for the next week or two to get me back in cardio shape (it's worked in the past to get my resting HR and recovery times down very fast) and then once I'm feeling good about my cardio fitness, I'll re-assess.

I think you're right about Bill Phillips' reasoning for doing the intervals the way he does in the book. Very good point!

Oh, and btw, I did realize that for some reason I've been typing out hiTT instead of hIIt LOLOL... blame it on my children.... they sucked out half of my brain when they were born.

[Rhone]

Chris and Dulish, thanks for the comments and advice. I'm feeling good today and had a good LBW this morning, so I'm looking forward to doing my new cardio again tomorrow morning--with a more cautious time or interval limit.

Dulish, I agree with you on the HR monitors... it's a nice objective way to see how hard you're working, and it often shows fitness increases that you otherwise might not notice (e.g. longer time to reach higher HR during intervals, and quicker drop in HR during rest periods).

[Chris]

For the record, I love my HR monitor too. It's more important than music to me during cardio... But, keep in mind that there is a bit of a delay between your actual heart rate and what it registers on the meter. One of the things with VO2 max sprints is that you race your heart up to 100% of max (or very close to it) but then slow back down before your body catches up. This is hard to do with a monitor.

[Marc]

Polar Heart rate monitor = best birthday present received in years! Very very useful.

[Rhone]

Yeah, there's definitely a delay... for that reason, I do a little estimating and make a point of stopping/starting my intervals before the watch actually reaches the upper/lower boundaries that I'm trying to keep my heart rate within.

[BryanSST]

Any type of interval training is beneficial. It's good to switch it up and keep the body guessing. Actually, last week, I put together a synopsis of my favorite cardio routines for my little brother. I will copy and paste it below in case anyone's interested in trying these. I used my speeds, as a reference point, since my brother is in similar shape, cardiovascularly, but clearly, each person needs to adapt these to their own ability.

FYI - for a 200-pound man, each of these burns between 450-600 calories for the session.

-----------------------------------------------------------
EXCERPT FROM MY EMAIL TO BROTHER:

So, I have about 7-8 runs that I normally alternate in between. Keep in
mind the below elements which go with EVERY RUN, as a standard operating
procedure (SOP for the acronym adept individuals).

1. All runs have an incline of 1.0 degree, unless otherwise stated.

2. All runs have a 2-3 minute progressive warm-up starting at 4.5 for 1
min, and then 4.7 for 2 minutes (if you cant walk at 4.7, then use 4.3
and 4.5 respectively)

3. All runs have a 5 minute decreasing cooldown. For one minute each, I
use 4.7, 4.5, 4.3, 4.1 (incline down to 0.0 at this point), and then
3.7.

3A: Total workout time will be 27-33 minutes, including the
warm-up and cooldown. Total actual exertion/difficult time is ~20-24
min.

4. All runs aim to achieve an "average" speed of 6.5 or higher for the
total workout, and that INCLUDES, the walk at beginning and end (most
treadmills will give you an "average speed" readout at the end if you
know how to work it).

Ok, on to the workouts:

1. 4.7 x 1 min, alternated with 9.1 for 1 min. Do 12 intervals, lasting
24 minutes

2. 4.5 x 1:20, 12.0 x 40 sec. Do 10 intervals, lasting 20 min.

3. 4.7 x 1 min, 6.7 x 20 sec, 10.5 x 40 sec. Do 10-12 intervals for
20-24 minutes

4. Body for life RUN: 6.1 x 1 min, 7.1 x 1 min, 8.1 x 1 min, 9.1 x 1
min. Repeat this 4 times, for a total of 16 minutes, and then at the end
of your last minute at 9.1, raise it up to 10.1 for 1 min. Then you're
done. Only 17 minutes (minus warm-up and cooldown)

5. Incline at 5.0 - Between each number about to be listed, take 1 min
at 4.5, which will be a REALLY fast walk, or a slow run with the incline
up like that. 6.1, 7.1, 8.1, 9.1. So, essentially, you're doing the Body
For life run, but because I'm putting the incline at 5.0, you're gonna
get 1 min of fast walking in between each minute of running. Do this 3
times. This will last 24 minutes.

6. 6.1 x 1 min, alternated with 9.1 x 1 min. Go for 8 intervals (16
minutes) initially, and work up to 10 intervals.

7. This is a favorite of mine for when Im down to work hard for brief
periods, but then I want a long recovery phase. 4.7 x 2 min, alternated
with 11.1 x 1 min. Go for 8 intervals initially, and work up to 10. Once
you get to 10, this will last 30 minutes, so its kinda long, but it's
nice to have long recovery between each sprint sometimes.

8. This is kinda an easy one for days you're not really feelin' it. 4.7
x 1 min, 6.7 x 3 min, 9.1 x 1 min. Repeat 5 times for a total of 25
minutes.

9. Personal favorite of mine (VERY TOUGH - GET PREPARED) - Go to a track
or football field. Mark off 100 yards (the length of a soccer field or
football field). All-out sprint from one side to the other. This
shouldn't take you more than 12-14 seconds. Act like you're trying to
run for your life. Then brisk walk back to the other side, and as soon
as you get there, go again. Work up to 15 intervals. Probably won't be
able to do it the first time. Then at the end, go for a 1/2 mile walk to
cool down and loosen up. Its intense.

I have others too, but that should be sufficient to get you started.
Once you tire of those, make up some of your own, or just ask me for
more. I like doing it this way, because it keeps it interesting, and
avoids the monotony of running at the same speed for so long. Plus, its
better for the cardiovascular system to be challenged in this manner.

------------------------------------------------------

So, clearly, adjust the speeds accordingly... and keep in mind that each of these workouts is a generic format and can be translated onto a bike, elleptical, rowing machine, or any other form of exercise.

[Hamoth]

So all of you people can run?

[BryanSST]

That is just my routine, and the speeds I use. I don't believe everyone can match that, and I'm sure many can exceed it. The same format can be used for people at all fitness levels. Maybe an 11.0 on the treadmill is a given difficulty for me, and maybe 7.0 is the same difficulty for you. Just adjust for your own ability.