I don't agree with BFL cardio

Chris · 11-06-2007

Maybe it's supposed to be the most efficient, or rather inefficient use of your energy, and why you can maximize results in only 20 minutes, but I don't think I agree with this strategy....

During the first few weeks of the challenge I followed the cardio portion of BFL pretty closely. Even with my asthma I just kept doing what I thought was intensity level training. It wasn't long before my body got pissed at me for the abuse and decided to set me back. I got some pretty bad shin splints around week 4.
I then swithched to riding my bike, the eliptical at the gym, and some combinations of rowing and the above. This went on for a couple weeks, but I just wasn't satisfied with it...

Sometime around week 7 or 8 I did two things that I think made the biggest impact in my training program. 1) I started doing aerobic shows on FitTV for 1 hour instead of the 20 min BFL intervals. 2) I started doing a 3 w.o. rotation with walking lunges for legs (I think I've explained this somewhere else, let me know if you'd like information on how I rotate my w.o.'s). The walking lunges were HARD and really gave me a cardio workout.
So what I think this did, and what I probably should have done in the beginning, is give me an aerobic base to build from. As the weeks progressed, I started adding back in the running. This time I decided to start running at an even pace and not trying to do the intervals. I'd still hit a 10 by the end of 20 minutes and I figure that's the same end point. This occured in rotation with aerobic TV shows.

Well.... now I'm training for a 5K, as I've mentioned. The other night I ran about 4 miles and kept my heart rate down between 70% and 80% of max HR and it felt great! I've had some of the longest runs of my life in the last couple weeks and I continue to improve. I'm now on a 3 cardio w.o. rotation where I train my VO2 max (similar to BFL intervals), lactic threshold, and an aerobic distance run.
I think if I had started building a base of aerobic cardio from the beginning I would have been better at adapting to the powerhouse BFL interval training. Every running article I read say for beginners to take it slow at first and to build a strong aerobic base to start training. I think it would be good for BFL to have people spend the first couple weeks of the challenge easing into both the cardio and the weight lifting, to teach the body form, alignment, and how to use the oxygen you give it more efficiently....

Maybe this should have been a blog entry... Please feel free to comment. I'm curious how you all view your training regimen.

blondebunny · 11-06-2007

Chris

I was doing the 3 times a week cardio but it was causing my blood pressure and heart rate to go haywire. Due to having high bp i have to be careful.

A trainer at my gym spoke to me about bfl because he knows the program inside and out and told me it is very generic and the HIIT doesnt always work for everyone. His suggestion for me is 30 -40 mins cardio 5 -6 times a week. I have been following that and have been doing well so far. The weight training i am going to be doing differently as well too. I am going to do two muscle groups a day for 4 - 5 days a week.

I also went to another trainer who told me the same thing especially since I do have a lot of weight to lose.

I am glad you posted this Chris. It is important and no two people are the same. I believe workout programs also need to look at the shape one is in as well as activity levels etc.

lillyo · 11-13-2007

HOLY COW!!!!!!!!!!! I read the topic on this thread and I almost fell over. Chris, you bring up a great point...I am also proud of your "daringness and honesty."

Something that has bothered me for a long time about "following BFL by the book" is that I read the book and think Bill Phillips meant to get an object that was not previously in motion IN MOTION. The beauty of the program is it is flexible. "Life Happens."

He created a program to help those of us who need a start. But should you stop if you can't do things EXACTLY? I don't personally think so. Any motion is still better than NONE.

The other thing that gets me is Pamela Peeke's Body for Life for Women. It is DEFINITELY a departure from BFL. Is it less valid? How can we reconcile it if, not?

Just things I think about at 3 in the morning.

Now that my rant is over: I also do 30-40 minutes of cardio on my cardio days. I don't look at this as a "defiant departure from BFL" but I look at it as a way to get an extra 250 cals burned that I wouldn't have with HIIT.

blondebunny · 11-13-2007

Lil - 3 am.. wow i should have gone on the computer.. I was up at that hour too.. lol.. we could have had a rant together.. lol

I have never read the bfl for women but i hear it is not as intense as the bfl by bill philips. I think everyone has to make the program fit for them.

Chris · 11-13-2007

Keep in mind... While we generally agree that it's fine to alter the plan as needed, be careful of going too easy. Bill's HIIT method is designed to maximize time in the gym, get you on with your life, and aceive a drastic transformation. Maybe it's too intense for some people... but if the goal is a significant transformation, it might be too difficult to accomplish w/o the HIIT.
I try to continually ask myself, is this the best I can do? (If no, try harder) Could I try harder? Could I get 1 more set? (If no, success).

Do what works for you, but remember to keep pushing....

Cheers!

blondebunny · 11-13-2007

Oh i always do push Chris.. just not to the point of passing out.

After getting my new workout routine yesterday at the gym I know i will be kicking it up even more. Today i get the other half of it. Penny the trainer is rooting for me and BFL all the way but is taking my BP into account which is good.

I havent had DOMS in weeks...

Chris · 11-13-2007

That's great! I know you are making a lot of progress, keep it up!

blondebunny · 11-13-2007

Thanks Chris -

Roshanda · 11-13-2007

The 20 minute cardio is what drew me to the program (that and the free day!). Before I was doing aerobics 6-7 times a week. I would start at 20 minutes, then 40, then 60. Eventually 60 wasn't doing it anymore and by that time I was tired of spending an hour out of my day working out. I have one aerobics video and that is what I always did. I never even thought to increase the intensity. Mostly because that would mean getting a new tape and learning it, which meant not getting much of a workout at first. Now, I do 20 minutes on my stationary bike. I like that. It works for me. Am I getting the best workout I possibly can? Maybe not. But I am getting enough for me and my goals. I don't feel totally exhausted at the end but it is hard to walk around for a bit after. The things that are important to me: 1) I am working out 6 days a week 2) I keep pushing myself further at least every few weeks 3) I will never have to go over 20 minutes 4) I am in better shape and I have more muscle tone. I might not follow BLF to the book, but it is the basis for MY program and I am doing something which I feel I could do for a long time. Also, I am moving in the right direction... it just might take me a little longer.

Chris · 11-13-2007

Yes! Now this sounds like a program!

Rock on!

blondebunny · 11-13-2007

Roshanda - I love how you are looking at your program. That is great. It is important that you are happy with it.

Roshanda · 11-14-2007

I have tried so many different diets and now I am looking for a change, not a diet. I am sick and tired of losing 20 pounds and then putting it right back on again. I think the problem was that I always did something that was a quick fix. Most of the diets out there are not something you would want to do long term. I am really looking to make permenant changes to my habits and if that means tweaking the program, then that is what I have to do. This is the first program I have done that makes sense to me and feels right and I look at it sort of like I look at religion... you don't have to argee with 100% of what they are saying 100% of the time... it just has to feel right to you in your heart.

Chris · 11-14-2007

There's a slogan on FitTV that has something to do with "Find what you like to do and make it fit". Yes, it's intended to be a pun, but it's the same idea with what you are saying... As long as you work it, doesn't matter how or what, but that's the overall goal.

blondebunny · 11-14-2007

Roshanda you are right. I love your attitude towards it

blondebunny · 11-14-2007

Chris you snuck that in on me... That is so true as well.

gnash · 11-14-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roshanda

I have tried so many different diets and now I am looking for a change, not a diet. I am sick and tired of losing 20 pounds and then putting it right back on again. I think the problem was that I always did something that was a quick fix. Most of the diets out there are not something you would want to do long term. I am really looking to make permenant changes to my habits and if that means tweaking the program, then that is what I have to do. This is the first program I have done that makes sense to me and feels right and I look at it sort of like I look at religion... you don't have to argee with 100% of what they are saying 100% of the time... it just has to feel right to you in your heart.

After a 20# weight loss, a consolidation period takes some time..so, you have to have a program you can live with during that period...a new set-point is established at the lower BW..it can take a year or more to establish..your body and mind have to accept the "New You."
Google "body weight set point" ..Good post R..

ghaladen · 11-29-2007

Going back to the initial post, I posted elsewhere I have issues with Cardio, especially HIIT. Here in Texas, at 6am (my workout time) it's about 40 degrees outside this time of year, so swimming is out of the question, and I absolutely loathe machines. With the machines I have to either live with about 70% heart rate tops or crank up the intensity and enjoy the sharp stabbing pain of my legs cramping. Running is about it but I have to keep running days at least 3-4 days apart because of the shin splints I get from the shock impact on my lower legs. Thinking about buying really nice knee braces to help alleviate these ailments.

And as far as which is better steady state or HIIT. I see the experts arguing about this till the end of time. Just like Milk, Carbs, Religion, Politics, Elvis/Morrison/Hendrix/Tupac really being dead, and whether 9/11 was an inside job or not. Let em argue to me, it's whatever works best for you.

For me, I mix about half and half, I jog fast and walk in intervals, but I don't jog at full speed because it takes me a long time for my heart rate to go back down to decent levels if I do. Say I all out ran for my life for a minute, it would take a good 6 minutes to stop panting and gasping for air, and for my heart to work its way out of my throat and back where it is supposed to be. I attribute part of this ailment to just kicking an 8 year smoking habit 6 weeks ago (coincidentally the same time I started BFL), so I'm at a disadvantage when it comes to cardio vs. a non-smoker or a long time ex-smoker. But hey, gotta start somewhere.

11-06-2007	#1 (permalink)
Chris Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 1,979 Blog Entries: 77	I don't agree with BFL cardio Maybe it's supposed to be the most efficient, or rather inefficient use of your energy, and why you can maximize results in only 20 minutes, but I don't think I agree with this strategy.... During the first few weeks of the challenge I followed the cardio portion of BFL pretty closely. Even with my asthma I just kept doing what I thought was intensity level training. It wasn't long before my body got pissed at me for the abuse and decided to set me back. I got some pretty bad shin splints around week 4. I then swithched to riding my bike, the eliptical at the gym, and some combinations of rowing and the above. This went on for a couple weeks, but I just wasn't satisfied with it... Sometime around week 7 or 8 I did two things that I think made the biggest impact in my training program. 1) I started doing aerobic shows on FitTV for 1 hour instead of the 20 min BFL intervals. 2) I started doing a 3 w.o. rotation with walking lunges for legs (I think I've explained this somewhere else, let me know if you'd like information on how I rotate my w.o.'s). The walking lunges were HARD and really gave me a cardio workout. So what I think this did, and what I probably should have done in the beginning, is give me an aerobic base to build from. As the weeks progressed, I started adding back in the running. This time I decided to start running at an even pace and not trying to do the intervals. I'd still hit a 10 by the end of 20 minutes and I figure that's the same end point. This occured in rotation with aerobic TV shows. Well.... now I'm training for a 5K, as I've mentioned. The other night I ran about 4 miles and kept my heart rate down between 70% and 80% of max HR and it felt great! I've had some of the longest runs of my life in the last couple weeks and I continue to improve. I'm now on a 3 cardio w.o. rotation where I train my VO2 max (similar to BFL intervals), lactic threshold, and an aerobic distance run. I think if I had started building a base of aerobic cardio from the beginning I would have been better at adapting to the powerhouse BFL interval training. Every running article I read say for beginners to take it slow at first and to build a strong aerobic base to start training. I think it would be good for BFL to have people spend the first couple weeks of the challenge easing into both the cardio and the weight lifting, to teach the body form, alignment, and how to use the oxygen you give it more efficiently.... Maybe this should have been a blog entry... Please feel free to comment. I'm curious how you all view your training regimen.

11-06-2007	#2 (permalink)
blondebunny Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Windsor ontario Posts: 376 Blog Entries: 12	Chris I was doing the 3 times a week cardio but it was causing my blood pressure and heart rate to go haywire. Due to having high bp i have to be careful. A trainer at my gym spoke to me about bfl because he knows the program inside and out and told me it is very generic and the HIIT doesnt always work for everyone. His suggestion for me is 30 -40 mins cardio 5 -6 times a week. I have been following that and have been doing well so far. The weight training i am going to be doing differently as well too. I am going to do two muscle groups a day for 4 - 5 days a week. I also went to another trainer who told me the same thing especially since I do have a lot of weight to lose. I am glad you posted this Chris. It is important and no two people are the same. I believe workout programs also need to look at the shape one is in as well as activity levels etc.

11-13-2007	#3 (permalink)
lillyo Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Idaho Falls, ID Posts: 524 Blog Entries: 27	HOLY COW!!!!!!!!!!! I read the topic on this thread and I almost fell over. Chris, you bring up a great point...I am also proud of your "daringness and honesty." Something that has bothered me for a long time about "following BFL by the book" is that I read the book and think Bill Phillips meant to get an object that was not previously in motion IN MOTION. The beauty of the program is it is flexible. "Life Happens." He created a program to help those of us who need a start. But should you stop if you can't do things EXACTLY? I don't personally think so. Any motion is still better than NONE. The other thing that gets me is Pamela Peeke's Body for Life for Women. It is DEFINITELY a departure from BFL. Is it less valid? How can we reconcile it if, not? Just things I think about at 3 in the morning. Now that my rant is over: I also do 30-40 minutes of cardio on my cardio days. I don't look at this as a "defiant departure from BFL" but I look at it as a way to get an extra 250 cals burned that I wouldn't have with HIIT.

11-13-2007	#4 (permalink)
blondebunny Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Windsor ontario Posts: 376 Blog Entries: 12	Lil - 3 am.. wow i should have gone on the computer.. I was up at that hour too.. lol.. we could have had a rant together.. lol I have never read the bfl for women but i hear it is not as intense as the bfl by bill philips. I think everyone has to make the program fit for them.

11-13-2007	#5 (permalink)
Chris Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 1,979 Blog Entries: 77	Keep in mind... While we generally agree that it's fine to alter the plan as needed, be careful of going too easy. Bill's HIIT method is designed to maximize time in the gym, get you on with your life, and aceive a drastic transformation. Maybe it's too intense for some people... but if the goal is a significant transformation, it might be too difficult to accomplish w/o the HIIT. I try to continually ask myself, is this the best I can do? (If no, try harder) Could I try harder? Could I get 1 more set? (If no, success). Do what works for you, but remember to keep pushing.... Cheers!

11-13-2007	#6 (permalink)
blondebunny Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Windsor ontario Posts: 376 Blog Entries: 12	Oh i always do push Chris.. just not to the point of passing out. After getting my new workout routine yesterday at the gym I know i will be kicking it up even more. Today i get the other half of it. Penny the trainer is rooting for me and BFL all the way but is taking my BP into account which is good. I havent had DOMS in weeks...

11-13-2007	#7 (permalink)
Chris Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 1,979 Blog Entries: 77	That's great! I know you are making a lot of progress, keep it up!

11-13-2007	#8 (permalink)
blondebunny Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Windsor ontario Posts: 376 Blog Entries: 12	Thanks Chris -

11-13-2007	#9 (permalink)
Roshanda Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 299 Blog Entries: 38	The 20 minute cardio is what drew me to the program (that and the free day!). Before I was doing aerobics 6-7 times a week. I would start at 20 minutes, then 40, then 60. Eventually 60 wasn't doing it anymore and by that time I was tired of spending an hour out of my day working out. I have one aerobics video and that is what I always did. I never even thought to increase the intensity. Mostly because that would mean getting a new tape and learning it, which meant not getting much of a workout at first. Now, I do 20 minutes on my stationary bike. I like that. It works for me. Am I getting the best workout I possibly can? Maybe not. But I am getting enough for me and my goals. I don't feel totally exhausted at the end but it is hard to walk around for a bit after. The things that are important to me: 1) I am working out 6 days a week 2) I keep pushing myself further at least every few weeks 3) I will never have to go over 20 minutes 4) I am in better shape and I have more muscle tone. I might not follow BLF to the book, but it is the basis for MY program and I am doing something which I feel I could do for a long time. Also, I am moving in the right direction... it just might take me a little longer.

11-13-2007	#10 (permalink)
Chris Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 1,979 Blog Entries: 77	Yes! Now this sounds like a program! Rock on!

11-13-2007	#11 (permalink)
blondebunny Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Windsor ontario Posts: 376 Blog Entries: 12	Roshanda - I love how you are looking at your program. That is great. It is important that you are happy with it.

11-14-2007	#12 (permalink)
Roshanda Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 299 Blog Entries: 38	I have tried so many different diets and now I am looking for a change, not a diet. I am sick and tired of losing 20 pounds and then putting it right back on again. I think the problem was that I always did something that was a quick fix. Most of the diets out there are not something you would want to do long term. I am really looking to make permenant changes to my habits and if that means tweaking the program, then that is what I have to do. This is the first program I have done that makes sense to me and feels right and I look at it sort of like I look at religion... you don't have to argee with 100% of what they are saying 100% of the time... it just has to feel right to you in your heart.

11-14-2007	#13 (permalink)
Chris Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 1,979 Blog Entries: 77	There's a slogan on FitTV that has something to do with "Find what you like to do and make it fit". Yes, it's intended to be a pun, but it's the same idea with what you are saying... As long as you work it, doesn't matter how or what, but that's the overall goal.

11-14-2007	#14 (permalink)
blondebunny Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Windsor ontario Posts: 376 Blog Entries: 12	Roshanda you are right. I love your attitude towards it

11-14-2007	#15 (permalink)
blondebunny Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Windsor ontario Posts: 376 Blog Entries: 12	Chris you snuck that in on me... That is so true as well.

11-29-2007	#17 (permalink)
ghaladen Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 32	Going back to the initial post, I posted elsewhere I have issues with Cardio, especially HIIT. Here in Texas, at 6am (my workout time) it's about 40 degrees outside this time of year, so swimming is out of the question, and I absolutely loathe machines. With the machines I have to either live with about 70% heart rate tops or crank up the intensity and enjoy the sharp stabbing pain of my legs cramping. Running is about it but I have to keep running days at least 3-4 days apart because of the shin splints I get from the shock impact on my lower legs. Thinking about buying really nice knee braces to help alleviate these ailments. And as far as which is better steady state or HIIT. I see the experts arguing about this till the end of time. Just like Milk, Carbs, Religion, Politics, Elvis/Morrison/Hendrix/Tupac really being dead, and whether 9/11 was an inside job or not. Let em argue to me, it's whatever works best for you. For me, I mix about half and half, I jog fast and walk in intervals, but I don't jog at full speed because it takes me a long time for my heart rate to go back down to decent levels if I do. Say I all out ran for my life for a minute, it would take a good 6 minutes to stop panting and gasping for air, and for my heart to work its way out of my throat and back where it is supposed to be. I attribute part of this ailment to just kicking an 8 year smoking habit 6 weeks ago (coincidentally the same time I started BFL), so I'm at a disadvantage when it comes to cardio vs. a non-smoker or a long time ex-smoker. But hey, gotta start somewhere.

11-29-2007	#18 (permalink)
Chris Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 1,979 Blog Entries: 77