X carbs + X protein = a full meal

Vendange · 07-29-2008

How can you really tell if you are having a full meal? I've heard that beans and rice combined makes the perfect protein, but the book says that they are both a carb. Would this be considered a full meal, or two carbs, or what?

yakubu · 07-31-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendange

How can you really tell if you are having a full meal? I've heard that beans and rice combined makes the perfect protein, but the book says that they are both a carb. Would this be considered a full meal, or two carbs, or what?

thats 2 carbs. baked beans does contain some protein but it is essentially a carb. beans and rice may make a full protein (i dont know) as there is some protein in beans but bear in mind that if u do combine those 2 then uve got a double carb portion which isnt gonna be any gud for ur weight, u'd basically be having 1 protein portion plus 2 carb potions

ur best just sticking with beans and chicken etc...

Rhone · 07-31-2008

Proteins are very large molecules which are constructed to perform a variety of functions (in fact, the genetic code is just a code for making proteins) made up of building blocks called amino acids. Your body can synthesize many amino acids on its own. There are 8 amino acids that the human body cannot synthesize on its own, which means they need to be included in the diet. Because of the need to include them in one's diet, those 8 amino acids are called "essential amino acids".

A source of protein that includes all 8 essential amino acids is often referred to as a "complete protein". Animal foods and plant foods differ from each other both in terms of quantity of protein (i.e. animal foods have far more protein in relation to fats and carbs), and quality of protein (i.e. animal foods tend to be complete proteins and plant foods tend to be lacking in one or two essential amino acids). There are a couple plant foods, like soy and quinoa, which have complete proteins, but still in lower quantities than you would get from animal foods.

Beans and rice is a commonly recommended combination for vegetarians because beans contain the essential amino acids that are missing in rice, and rice contains the essential amino acids that are missing in beans. So if you combine them, you get a "complete protein". You do not get a BFL-style meal, however. A meal of, for example, chicken and rice will (assuming it is portioned properly) give you a roughly equal balance of carbs and protein. A meal of beans and rice will give you a meal that has probably far more than twice as much carbs as protein. In BFL terms, it would be 2 carb portions with a fraction of a protein portion.

Now, on the bright side, beans and rice gives you easily enough protein for normal body functioning (protein deficiency-related health problems are unheard of outside areas of the world where people are just plain starving overall), and despite the protests of low-carb advocates I would say it's perfectly fine for losing weight as well (you don't see a lot of fat vegetarians, and even fewer fat vegans).

Many would argue, though, that you need a lot more protein than that if you are trying to gain muscle mass.

Vendange · 07-31-2008

Thats good advice, but instead of meat or chicken are there any alternatives to meat? I'm a vegetarian.

Rhone · 07-31-2008

Non-meat protein alternatives: Egg whites, cottage cheese, and protein powders. If you're vegan, you're basically limited soy protein powder.

Are you trying primarily to lose weight, or build muscle? If you're trying to lose weight, I think you would be fine with the advice I gave in another thread.

If you're trying to build muscle, then you might want to poke around on the net and look for web sites for vegetarian bodybuilders to see how most of them get their protein.

statona · 07-31-2008

rhone - no offense - because I was going to write into this when I had first seen it - with the quote: Rhone - Batter up.

But you are a total nerd... I love it!

Chris · 08-01-2008

I'm so sick of meat all of a sudden. I was traveling all last week and I managed to eat very well. The only cheats were a few extra cocktails, but I got all my workouts in on schedule. But for some reason, this week I'm grossed out by all the meat I've been eating. This week has been hardly any meat, but loads of veggies and vegetarian "proteins" like beans and rice. I don't really even want to eat eggs this week.

Hopefully next week I'll be back on track. But I think it's interesting this recent desire to become a vegetarian again. Hmmm...

Rhone · 08-01-2008

Heh, thanks Andy. It's partially your fault for putting the pressure on--just when I think "nah I don't have time to reply to this thread" you say something like "I'm sure Rhone will write a book about this one."

Chris, it's interesting how it can go back and forth like that. I went through a vegetarian phase where meat kinda grossed me out (also lost about 80lbs that year--but that was a while ago and I gradually regained most of it in the intervening years). I'm fine with meat now but I can definitely imagine feeling driven to eat vegetarian again at some point.

Dulish · 08-01-2008

Vegan body building is tough, but doable... I know there are a few sites out there if you google for them.

Remember Tofu and Tempeh are decent vegan sources of protein as well. There's also Quorn (which ooks me out for some reason), tvp, etc. The problem with those (for me) is that they are so processed.... but, I think in moderation, they are good because you get your protein without having to eat portions the size of a barn.

yakubu · 08-01-2008

wot is it with vegans anyway ? god put animals on earth for the purpose of human beings. they are here for us to eat them so wots the problem ? animals cant earn a living, they cant contribute to the world, they can't invent cures for cancer, all they can do is be eaten. they spend all there time farting around and eating other aminals so so is the point in them being here ? the only point in them being here is to provide humans with a good source of protein and nutrition

Dulish · 08-01-2008

OMG, that is incredibly offensive (and I'm not a vegan!)

Who are you to decide how others should live their lives?

Different strokes for different folks, man... tolerance, diversity... that's what makes the world go around.

winnie · 08-01-2008

Yakuba,

I've got a few friends who are vegetarian, and several of them are opposed not to the eating of animals, but to the environmental effects associated with the raising of animals (clearing land, etc). Some are just opposed to the meat industry.

I've even got a pseudo-vegetarian friend that will only eat meat from certain sources. He usually just tells people he's vegetarian for convenience of not having to explain his position. He's an avid hunter, and will eat what he kills or what someone else kills in a proper habitat, but won't touch "factory meat."

Some people are opposed to eating meat for religious reasons (Buddhist cuisine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

I imagine some people just don't like meat and do it for taste.

And then there is the "meat is murder" crowd. I have more trouble swallowing this viewpoint, especially from anyone pro-choice or in favor of the death penalty, (but that's politics, and I won't go there), but I can kinda see their point, too.

Some people adopt vegetarianism in the name of becoming more healthy. You can see why someone might, as countless people on this board have pointed out that "you never see a fat vegetarian." Many people prefer to maintain this lifestyle, even when they change they way they approach their diet.

Lastly, some people with eating disorders, or who once had eating disorders adopt vegetarianism for no reason at all. It's part of the above, but it's also a psychological thing. Something to set themselves apart in their minds and remind them of what they are doing. It also gives a person with an eating disorder a "cover story" for the way they eat and why they lose weight. Some people retain this lifestyle when or while they recover from their eating disorder.

-------------

Lo, I kinda don't think Yakuba's statement was all that bad. He was asking for information and explaining his background and thus, why he wasn't aware of the reasons that cause some people to become vegetarian. I think Yakuba's sort of "up front" style sets some people off, though.

-------------

Finally, to anyone attempting vegetarian/vegan bodybuilding or BFL. If you find anything out about the best ways to do this, please share it with the board here. Other people will thank you. Even we non-vegetarians will appreciate the new information

Dulish · 08-01-2008

That was a great post, Winnie. But I have to disagree with you that it wasn't offensive. Perhaps because (I assume... LOL yeah, I know the joke LOL) you are part of the dominant paradigm and not used to having to deal with people attempting to marginalize you and your choices at every turn.

Anytime anyone gets away with saying "You are wrong/stupid/silly for doing XYZ because it's different from me" I will challenge that to my dying breath.

It's offensive for anyone to assume that their viewpoint is the ONLY right way to view it and to then proceed to attempt to invalidate others' choices because they are different.

The assumption in his post that "god created..." is just as offensive as all of us aren't god believers (like me, for instance).

I guess when you are part of a marginalized group as I am (let's see, female, bisexual, polyamorous, progressive, atheist shall I go on? LOLOL) you become sick and tired of everyone attempting to invalidate your choices and lifestyle. It's a slippery slope to allow people to say "Veganism is stupid"... where do you then draw the line? Is it OK to then say "Vegetarianism doesn't make sense"? What about "Buddhism is wrong"? How about "anyone who doesn't eat meat shouldn't be allowed to XYZ" Sounds far fetched, but it's really not. Look at what the neo-cons managed to do to our society from the Reagan era to now.

One tiny inroad leads to another, and another... like water on a stone. I challenge intolerance whenever I see it. I will defend to my death your right to hold an opinion contrary to mine, but I will call you on it EVERY TIME if you attempt to invalidate my right to my contrary opinion... as as someone who isn't afraid to stand up and be counted, I will stand up for someone else when I see it happening to them as well.

And yes, Yakubu's style of stating his opinion as fact is annoying as hell and I will continue to call him out on it when it gets to the point that he's being totally offensive (as that post was IMO).

yakubu · 08-01-2008

i just presumed that the reason vegans are vegans is cos they dont beleive in eating aminals cos it aint rite. im just pointing out that if that is the reason why they wont eat meat then maybe they shud rethink this cos animals are on earth to be eaten, they are here to serve us.

Rhone · 08-01-2008

I was going to make a point of not contributing to a potential flame-fest, but I have to respond now because my cat, Tigger, is very upset and wants me to say a couple things on her behalf.

First of all, she wants it to be clear to everyone that she does not spend all her time "farting around and eating other animals." In fact, she points out, I eat a hell of a lot more "other animals" than she does and it's not her fault "chicken meal" is the first ingredient in Purina Naturals Cat Chow. ((Shhh, no Tigger, I'm not going to tell them about how I fart way more than you do!))

Ahem, anyway, she wants me to mention that she also engages in the following activities:

Sleeping in adorably cute positions.
Sleeping in my lap.
Chasing imaginary prey.
Suddenly, for no apparent reason, running from one end of the apartment to the other in 0.2 seconds.
Hiding from my wife.
Escaping my wife's clutches with what we like to call "cat-like reflexes".
Hiding around corners or in small spaces and then ambushing my wife and I when we least expect it.
Running up to me and rolling over onto her back every time I get home, then promptly whipping out the claws and teeth to go ninja on my hand when I try to rub her belly.
Smacking around a stuffed mouse hanging from a string.
Getting her paw stuck with the string wrapped around it and begging me to release her. (She's a little embarrassed that I brought that one up and would like me to add that it only happened once, and she was only a kitten at the time. Still, hahah Tigger, you got your butt whooped by a FAKE MOUSE!)

Her proudest accomplishment is being adored by my wife, who is seriously phobic of dogs, cats, and just about anything with fur and teeth. Thanks to Tigger, she has one less species that she thinks is on this planet just to try to eat her face.

Tigger and I hope we've cleared up some misconceptions about what animals do in their spare time.

winnie · 08-01-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by yakubu

i just presumed that the reason vegans are vegans is cos they dont beleive in eating aminals cos it aint rite. im just pointing out that if that is the reason why they wont eat meat then maybe they shud rethink this cos animals are on earth to be eaten, they are here to serve us.

Yakuba, as soon as you realize that not everyone is religious, then you argument becomes more difficult to sell. If you count humans as animals, then you wind up with something along the lines of "humans are on earth to be eaten," which makes things even harder to sell.

-----

Lo, I know. Yes, it was offensive, but I was trying to defuse the situation. I _do_ know what it's like to be marginalized, and we can talk about that privately if you'd like. I was also trying to give Yakuba the benefit of the doubt.

Also, when I read a post on any internet forum, I insert "I think" as the first two words, regardless of whether or not they're there. It helps for situations like these.

-----

I don't ever draw the line at what someone is allowed to say. I draw the line at what someone is allowed to legislate.

Yakuba can't invalidate your right to a contrary opinion. It doesn't matter how he phrases his talk. That's why saying "The defendant shot the victim in the face and is kind of a dick, and if you can't see it then bugger off" doesn't hold up in court.

Also, if someone is wrong, then they are wrong. Calling them offensive doesn't make them any more or less wrong. Providing your viewpoint, along with information can help to invalidate their argument, and help keep others from agreeing with a wrong statement, but even that doesn't make it more or less wrong. You don't even have to think they're wrong.

yakubu · 08-01-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhone

I was going to make a point of not contributing to a potential flame-fest, but I have to respond now because my cat, Tigger, is very upset and wants me to say a couple things on her behalf.

First of all, she wants it to be clear to everyone that she does not spend all her time "farting around and eating other animals." In fact, she points out, I eat a hell of a lot more "other animals" than she does and it's not her fault "chicken meal" is the first ingredient in Purina Naturals Cat Chow. ((Shhh, no Tigger, I'm not going to tell them about how I fart way more than you do!))

Ahem, anyway, she wants me to mention that she also engages in the following activities:

Sleeping in adorably cute positions.
Sleeping in my lap.
Chasing imaginary prey.
Suddenly, for no apparent reason, running from one end of the apartment to the other in 0.2 seconds.
Hiding from my wife.
Escaping my wife's clutches with what we like to call "cat-like reflexes".
Hiding around corners or in small spaces and then ambushing my wife and I when we least expect it.
Running up to me and rolling over onto her back every time I get home, then promptly whipping out the claws and teeth to go ninja on my hand when I try to rub her belly.
Smacking around a stuffed mouse hanging from a string.
Getting her paw stuck with the string wrapped around it and begging me to release her. (She's a little embarrassed that I brought that one up and would like me to add that it only happened once, and she was only a kitten at the time. Still, hahah Tigger, you got your butt whooped by a FAKE MOUSE!)

Her proudest accomplishment is being adored by my wife, who is seriously phobic of dogs, cats, and just about anything with fur and teeth. Thanks to Tigger, she has one less species that she thinks is on this planet just to try to eat her face.

Tigger and I hope we've cleared up some misconceptions about what animals do in their spare time.

meeooowww!! i actually like cats and certainly dont think that they shud be eaten

im sure u get my point anyway. i mean wot does a cow do? it sits in a feild all day farting about ? wot is the purpose of a cow ? surely only to provide humans with milk and meat. i dont see why a lot of vegans have a problem with eatin meet out of the beleif that its wrong to eat animals . thats wot a lot of animals are hear for - to be eaten

i dont mean all animals. cats and dogs are great companions, sharks , tigers, crogs, lions etc... are great for entertainment and fascination at zoes

07-29-2008	#1 (permalink)
Vendange Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Arizona Posts: 8	X carbs + X protein = a full meal How can you really tell if you are having a full meal? I've heard that beans and rice combined makes the perfect protein, but the book says that they are both a carb. Would this be considered a full meal, or two carbs, or what?

07-31-2008	#6 (permalink)
statona Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Rehoboth Beach, DE Posts: 435	rhone - no offense - because I was going to write into this when I had first seen it - with the quote: Rhone - Batter up. But you are a total nerd... I love it! __________________ Andy See my 2008 transformation results Read more about me at: www.MENSHEALTH.com Read more about me at: www.IRONMAN.com April 1, 2000 - 317 pounds 03/02/08 - Day 1 Stats: 182 - 22%.. 05/24/08 - Day 84 Stats: 157.8 - 6.8% BF ... and this is my quest to inspire others!

08-01-2008	#7 (permalink)
Chris Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 1,981 Blog Entries: 77	I'm so sick of meat all of a sudden. I was traveling all last week and I managed to eat very well. The only cheats were a few extra cocktails, but I got all my workouts in on schedule. But for some reason, this week I'm grossed out by all the meat I've been eating. This week has been hardly any meat, but loads of veggies and vegetarian "proteins" like beans and rice. I don't really even want to eat eggs this week. Hopefully next week I'll be back on track. But I think it's interesting this recent desire to become a vegetarian again. Hmmm... __________________ "Half ass effort gets you half ass results." "Negative people can clear a room quicker than a fart." "You don't think your way to a new way of living. You live your way to a new way of thinking."

08-01-2008	#9 (permalink)
Dulish Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 180	Vegan body building is tough, but doable... I know there are a few sites out there if you google for them. Remember Tofu and Tempeh are decent vegan sources of protein as well. There's also Quorn (which ooks me out for some reason), tvp, etc. The problem with those (for me) is that they are so processed.... but, I think in moderation, they are good because you get your protein without having to eat portions the size of a barn. __________________ Just call me Lo W5D1: 137 (-6) W3D1: 140.5 (-2.5) W1D2: 143 12 week Goals: Lose 20 lbs of fat Gain 5 lbs of muscle Fit into size 2 pants Regain VO2Max Regain cardio and muscular endurance (oh, and look HOT again )

08-01-2008	#11 (permalink)
Dulish Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 180	OMG, that is incredibly offensive (and I'm not a vegan!) Who are you to decide how others should live their lives? Different strokes for different folks, man... tolerance, diversity... that's what makes the world go around. __________________ Just call me Lo W5D1: 137 (-6) W3D1: 140.5 (-2.5) W1D2: 143 12 week Goals: Lose 20 lbs of fat Gain 5 lbs of muscle Fit into size 2 pants Regain VO2Max Regain cardio and muscular endurance (oh, and look HOT again )

07-31-2008	#3 (permalink)
Rhone Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 265	Proteins are very large molecules which are constructed to perform a variety of functions (in fact, the genetic code is just a code for making proteins) made up of building blocks called amino acids. Your body can synthesize many amino acids on its own. There are 8 amino acids that the human body cannot synthesize on its own, which means they need to be included in the diet. Because of the need to include them in one's diet, those 8 amino acids are called "essential amino acids". A source of protein that includes all 8 essential amino acids is often referred to as a "complete protein". Animal foods and plant foods differ from each other both in terms of quantity of protein (i.e. animal foods have far more protein in relation to fats and carbs), and quality of protein (i.e. animal foods tend to be complete proteins and plant foods tend to be lacking in one or two essential amino acids). There are a couple plant foods, like soy and quinoa, which have complete proteins, but still in lower quantities than you would get from animal foods. Beans and rice is a commonly recommended combination for vegetarians because beans contain the essential amino acids that are missing in rice, and rice contains the essential amino acids that are missing in beans. So if you combine them, you get a "complete protein". You do not get a BFL-style meal, however. A meal of, for example, chicken and rice will (assuming it is portioned properly) give you a roughly equal balance of carbs and protein. A meal of beans and rice will give you a meal that has probably far more than twice as much carbs as protein. In BFL terms, it would be 2 carb portions with a fraction of a protein portion. Now, on the bright side, beans and rice gives you easily enough protein for normal body functioning (protein deficiency-related health problems are unheard of outside areas of the world where people are just plain starving overall), and despite the protests of low-carb advocates I would say it's perfectly fine for losing weight as well (you don't see a lot of fat vegetarians, and even fewer fat vegans). Many would argue, though, that you need a lot more protein than that if you are trying to gain muscle mass.

07-31-2008	#4 (permalink)
Vendange Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Arizona Posts: 8	Thats good advice, but instead of meat or chicken are there any alternatives to meat? I'm a vegetarian.

07-31-2008	#5 (permalink)
Rhone Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 265	Non-meat protein alternatives: Egg whites, cottage cheese, and protein powders. If you're vegan, you're basically limited soy protein powder. Are you trying primarily to lose weight, or build muscle? If you're trying to lose weight, I think you would be fine with the advice I gave in another thread. If you're trying to build muscle, then you might want to poke around on the net and look for web sites for vegetarian bodybuilders to see how most of them get their protein.

08-01-2008	#8 (permalink)
Rhone Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 265	Heh, thanks Andy. It's partially your fault for putting the pressure on--just when I think "nah I don't have time to reply to this thread" you say something like "I'm sure Rhone will write a book about this one." Chris, it's interesting how it can go back and forth like that. I went through a vegetarian phase where meat kinda grossed me out (also lost about 80lbs that year--but that was a while ago and I gradually regained most of it in the intervening years). I'm fine with meat now but I can definitely imagine feeling driven to eat vegetarian again at some point.

08-01-2008	#10 (permalink)
yakubu Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 407	wot is it with vegans anyway ? god put animals on earth for the purpose of human beings. they are here for us to eat them so wots the problem ? animals cant earn a living, they cant contribute to the world, they can't invent cures for cancer, all they can do is be eaten. they spend all there time farting around and eating other aminals so so is the point in them being here ? the only point in them being here is to provide humans with a good source of protein and nutrition

08-01-2008	#12 (permalink)
winnie Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Southern Mississippi Posts: 197	Yakuba, I've got a few friends who are vegetarian, and several of them are opposed not to the eating of animals, but to the environmental effects associated with the raising of animals (clearing land, etc). Some are just opposed to the meat industry. I've even got a pseudo-vegetarian friend that will only eat meat from certain sources. He usually just tells people he's vegetarian for convenience of not having to explain his position. He's an avid hunter, and will eat what he kills or what someone else kills in a proper habitat, but won't touch "factory meat." Some people are opposed to eating meat for religious reasons (Buddhist cuisine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). I imagine some people just don't like meat and do it for taste. And then there is the "meat is murder" crowd. I have more trouble swallowing this viewpoint, especially from anyone pro-choice or in favor of the death penalty, (but that's politics, and I won't go there), but I can kinda see their point, too. Some people adopt vegetarianism in the name of becoming more healthy. You can see why someone might, as countless people on this board have pointed out that "you never see a fat vegetarian." Many people prefer to maintain this lifestyle, even when they change they way they approach their diet. Lastly, some people with eating disorders, or who once had eating disorders adopt vegetarianism for no reason at all. It's part of the above, but it's also a psychological thing. Something to set themselves apart in their minds and remind them of what they are doing. It also gives a person with an eating disorder a "cover story" for the way they eat and why they lose weight. Some people retain this lifestyle when or while they recover from their eating disorder. ------------- Lo, I kinda don't think Yakuba's statement was all that bad. He was asking for information and explaining his background and thus, why he wasn't aware of the reasons that cause some people to become vegetarian. I think Yakuba's sort of "up front" style sets some people off, though. ------------- Finally, to anyone attempting vegetarian/vegan bodybuilding or BFL. If you find anything out about the best ways to do this, please share it with the board here. Other people will thank you. Even we non-vegetarians will appreciate the new information Last edited by winnie; 08-01-2008 at 05:48 PM. Reason: corrected an error in typography

08-01-2008	#13 (permalink)
Dulish Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 180	That was a great post, Winnie. But I have to disagree with you that it wasn't offensive. Perhaps because (I assume... LOL yeah, I know the joke LOL) you are part of the dominant paradigm and not used to having to deal with people attempting to marginalize you and your choices at every turn. Anytime anyone gets away with saying "You are wrong/stupid/silly for doing XYZ because it's different from me" I will challenge that to my dying breath. It's offensive for anyone to assume that their viewpoint is the ONLY right way to view it and to then proceed to attempt to invalidate others' choices because they are different. The assumption in his post that "god created..." is just as offensive as all of us aren't god believers (like me, for instance). I guess when you are part of a marginalized group as I am (let's see, female, bisexual, polyamorous, progressive, atheist shall I go on? LOLOL) you become sick and tired of everyone attempting to invalidate your choices and lifestyle. It's a slippery slope to allow people to say "Veganism is stupid"... where do you then draw the line? Is it OK to then say "Vegetarianism doesn't make sense"? What about "Buddhism is wrong"? How about "anyone who doesn't eat meat shouldn't be allowed to XYZ" Sounds far fetched, but it's really not. Look at what the neo-cons managed to do to our society from the Reagan era to now. One tiny inroad leads to another, and another... like water on a stone. I challenge intolerance whenever I see it. I will defend to my death your right to hold an opinion contrary to mine, but I will call you on it EVERY TIME if you attempt to invalidate my right to my contrary opinion... as as someone who isn't afraid to stand up and be counted, I will stand up for someone else when I see it happening to them as well. And yes, Yakubu's style of stating his opinion as fact is annoying as hell and I will continue to call him out on it when it gets to the point that he's being totally offensive (as that post was IMO). __________________ Just call me Lo W5D1: 137 (-6) W3D1: 140.5 (-2.5) W1D2: 143 12 week Goals: Lose 20 lbs of fat Gain 5 lbs of muscle Fit into size 2 pants Regain VO2Max Regain cardio and muscular endurance (oh, and look HOT again )

08-01-2008	#14 (permalink)
yakubu Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 407	i just presumed that the reason vegans are vegans is cos they dont beleive in eating aminals cos it aint rite. im just pointing out that if that is the reason why they wont eat meat then maybe they shud rethink this cos animals are on earth to be eaten, they are here to serve us.

08-01-2008	#15 (permalink)
Rhone Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 265	I was going to make a point of not contributing to a potential flame-fest, but I have to respond now because my cat, Tigger, is very upset and wants me to say a couple things on her behalf. First of all, she wants it to be clear to everyone that she does not spend all her time "farting around and eating other animals." In fact, she points out, I eat a hell of a lot more "other animals" than she does and it's not her fault "chicken meal" is the first ingredient in Purina Naturals Cat Chow. ((Shhh, no Tigger, I'm not going to tell them about how I fart way more than you do!)) Ahem, anyway, she wants me to mention that she also engages in the following activities: Sleeping in adorably cute positions. Sleeping in my lap. Chasing imaginary prey. Suddenly, for no apparent reason, running from one end of the apartment to the other in 0.2 seconds. Hiding from my wife. Escaping my wife's clutches with what we like to call "cat-like reflexes". Hiding around corners or in small spaces and then ambushing my wife and I when we least expect it. Running up to me and rolling over onto her back every time I get home, then promptly whipping out the claws and teeth to go ninja on my hand when I try to rub her belly. Smacking around a stuffed mouse hanging from a string. Getting her paw stuck with the string wrapped around it and begging me to release her. (She's a little embarrassed that I brought that one up and would like me to add that it only happened once, and she was only a kitten at the time. Still, hahah Tigger, you got your butt whooped by a FAKE MOUSE!) Her proudest accomplishment is being adored by my wife, who is seriously phobic of dogs, cats, and just about anything with fur and teeth. Thanks to Tigger, she has one less species that she thinks is on this planet just to try to eat her face. Tigger and I hope we've cleared up some misconceptions about what animals do in their spare time.