Just started - ? on protein/carb grams

[DeeDeeDoodle]

I just started BLF and I am following the suggested protein/carb list. However, is there a good rule to try to follow as far as the max. amount of protein/carb grams I should consume for each meal? The "size of your fist" rule is not always a good way to measure. I'm a Type 1 personality and having a hard time not having some things more specific.

[Maljonic]

What's a Type 1 personality?

[Chris]

You can aim for 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight per day. The same can be said for carbs, but I often recommend 1.5 to 2 grams carbs per lb. But anyway, just take that daily total and divide by the number of meals you're eating. You shouldn't be too concerned about over eating protein. In my experience it's pretty hard to eat too much without trying.

[DeeDeeDoodle]

Thanks for getting back to me on this ... that helps alot!

[Hamoth]

Originally Posted by Chris

You can aim for 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight per day. The same can be said for carbs, but I often recommend 1.5 to 2 grams carbs per lb. But anyway, just take that daily total and divide by the number of meals you're eating. You shouldn't be too concerned about over eating protein. In my experience it's pretty hard to eat too much without trying.

I always hear these calculations based on body wieght, however wouldn't needs for a person with 240 very fat lbs be different from say a muscular 240 lbs?

If I follow the body weight numbers I end up supposedly needing a lot of calories. A personal trainer had me eating 6 600 calorie meals a day and...shocker...I got fat(er).

[Chris]

Well it's technically based on lean body weight... but there's also a need to get a "fat" person's metabolism firing hot. If you eat a lot, get your body used to it, and then taper, you'll slim down. I know somewhere in the book there's a comment about some people needing to eat more in the beginning.

But if you know your percent body fat, you can multiply your current weight by 1-%bf to get lean body mass... then base your calculations on this value.

[Hamoth]

Ahah....That explains a lot.
I'll have to work up the math and compare where that puts me.

Wait...

With weight at 225 and Bf% ~= 36

((1 - 36) = -35) X 225 = -7,875

That's not right...
You mean weight - weight X body fat percent?

225 - ((225 X .36) = 81) = 144.
or ~ 1152 calories assuming 4 calories per gram.
Calories in Protein, Fat and Carbohydrates | CaloriesPerHour.com

Seems like a lot less than what I'm eating...
I may need to measure more carefully.

[Hamoth]

This is why I get confused...it seems like there are all these conflicting systems.

Metrics:
Male
Age: 33
Weight 225 lbs / 495 kg
Lean Body weight : 144 lbs
Height: 5' 6" / 167 cm
Body fat: ~36% (consistent read from body fat scale over weeks of measurements at various times of day, etc...)

BMR: 7482.85 (Harris-Benedict )
3527.92 (Katch-McArdle)

If I calculate calories required by lean body mass and activity level per the instructions here and factor in the BFL workouts and my Tai Chi and ignore my daily walks, house work, etc...

45 minutes lifting Monday
1 hour tai chi
20 min cardio
45 lifting
20 cardio
45 lifying
20 cardio
Total: 5 hours
Giving me a multiplier of 15.
Or a TDEE = 1.55 x BMR(7482.85) || 1.55 x BMR( 3527.92)

_____________

By one method I should be eating Lean Body X 15 = 2160 c

Another says:
...well that can't be right...
How Many Calories Should I Eat to Burn Fat or Build Muscle? Calculate Your TDEE.

How Many Calories Do I Need to Burn Fat or Build Muscle?

Everyone keeps telling me this isn't rocket science...but it sure is starting to seem like it to me.

[Chris]

It's very confusing, but here's something to note... Doing body weight x 15 will give you a rough estimate of your AMR (BMR + activity). You can get more precise with a 1.5 activity factor x BMR, but it should be at least close to the 2160c. I'm almost certain that there's an error in your Harris-Benedict formula.

What I mean to say, for calculating lean body mass was this.. 1-0.36 ( aka 36%) = 0.64 (aka 64%). So then it's body weight (225) x 0.64 = Lean body weight (less fat) = 144. Incidentally, 144# seems just about right for your height.
The math would have you eating about 2K calories (which you've calculated), but I think that's too few. Your body will feel very sluggish from this. Instead, I'd like to see you eat enough to maintain your body weight for 3-4 days, then drop it by 300 to 500 calories per week until you get down to ~2K. This is a much more gentle way to shift your metabolism. Keeping your workout intensity high will help you create a deficit.

[Chris]

Now, all of this was assuming you even want to count calories. You certainly don't have to... I always advise it for a while. It's great practice to see how different foods impact your budget. You only get so many calories to spend per day, and counting teaches you to spend them wisely. But long term, frankly, it sucks to count calories.
I like to count calories to see what a "fist size portion" of xxxxx is worth and then eat that. You'll get good at knowing how much food is appropriate. Then just double check with counting for 3 days every month... At least this is how I do it.

[Hamoth]

I'm trying to get a reasonable caloric baseline so that I can evaluate a given meal and make sure its not something crazy because I'm eating so many foods I've never had before.

Today is day 16...I can't tell what my body is doing...I feel stronger, more muscly and like my core is much more resilient. I can feel the additional strength flowing, but paradoxically I also feel fatter and tired.

The scale - which I know I'm not supposed to watch - just yields puzzling numbers (prolly why I'm not supposed to watch it).

I was losing a few pounds, now I've gained a few...

Just makes me want to double check my calories...

[Hamoth]

Wanted to add thanks and apologize for hijacking the thread!

I can move the detailed discussion of my metrics to my blog perhaps.

[Chris]

You're fine.. The feelings you are having now are perfectly natural and very common. Double check if you want/need to. I think it's a good idea. But also trust the system. It works!

Keep it up! 16 days is a fantastic start!

[rocketman]

I'm also uncomfortable with the "palm/fist" portions (I'm an engineer - we need hard numbers!). This article on the main BFL website cleared it up quite well:

Body-for-LIFE Nutrition Articles

Complete with calculation of grams of protein/carb/fat to be expected and how to dole them out during the day.

[Hamoth]

That can't be right...

I followed the activity calculator per the article's suggestion and got some pretty high caloric numbers:
Fitness Partner's Activity Calculator


According to that, even pessimistic estimates as follows:
Weight: 225 lbs

Bike to and from gym: (5 minutes moderate )50 c
Walk the dog: ( 3 mph 40 min) 200 c
sleep (8 hours): 720 c
TV (3 hours): 306 c
working at computer / blogging / video games (8 hours): 1200

2406 before even hitting the gym?

That can't be right...

That's definitely at huge odds with the same article's other method that gave me a LBM of 144 and a caloric baseline of 1728 (which still seems high, but much more reasonable...)

Although it is useful to see I may need:
144 grams of protein a day. I'll audit a typical day of BFL from my journal and see how I measured up to that.

I will say that on BFL I was eating ~1700 calories a day.

[TheHappyFamily]

I too find the high caloric needs pretty tough to stomach. Pun intended.

I did an audit of what foods we are eating on a daily basis, and I'm not even close to the almost 3000 calories a day that BFL article says to consume.

Fat(?)loss over the past 9 weeks has averaged 1.3 pounds a week. I say fat, because I know I'm slimmer, but the scale doesn't move much, so I know I've gained a lot of muscle weight. Which is pretty cool.

How often do you audit your caloric needs? Do we REALLY need to eat all that food? I understand nutrient dense, but DAMN! Should I use a double scoop of whey? When I have cottage cheese and yogurt, I don't eat a full serving. It's SOOOO much, I can't eat it all. Is that bad too?