To gain, eat simple?

[Chris]

Well thanks to Maljonic, we have our gaining mass section up and running.

I'll start it off with this tip on carb consumption...

So we all know that complex carbs are the way to go, right? Well while this is true most of the time, I've found that there are 2x per day when simple sugar is your friend.

Post workout, you want to switch your body from its rapid transition into catabolism back in anabolism. Immediately after I'm done working out (or within about 15 minutes) I've downed my shake consisting of 2 scoops whey, creatine, and simple sugars. I've used table sugar in the past but lately I like the flavor boost from orange gatorade. The point is, get your body back into food burning before you start burning muscles and get that glycogen restored.
Second, first thing in the morning upon rising I grab a glass of water and down some gatorade. I buy the powder and usually mix in 1-2 scoops depending on my caloric goals for the day. Just like post workout, it gets your body back into growth mode since both sleep and working out push your body into muscle digesting mode (catabolism).

That's it! The rest of the time continue chowing down on those whole grains.

[jaypunkrawk]

Man...I've been so good to cut out sugars and the like from my diet. Now you're telling me to add some back in? How about coffee with sugar in the morning? That sounds awesome to me!

[Rhone]

Yeah, Jay, if you're trying to gain muscle mass, that's fine.

For those interested in some physiological details behind Chris' suggestion, here it comes:

High levels of blood glucose (and simple carbs (i.e. sugar) give you a quicker, higher rise in blood glucose than other macronutrients) stimulate your pancreas to release insulin in your blood stream. Insulin's job is to transport glucose into your body's cells to be stored for later use (glucose can't get into cells on its own; hence the need for insulin).

Now, the important thing here is that there is more than one destination where insulin can take that glucose:

1. It can be taken to your liver and muscles, where it is stored in a form called glycogen--which can relatively quickly and efficiently be broken back down to glucose as needed. It's kind of a quick-burning, short-term fuel supply. Or...
2. It can be taken into fat cells and converted to fat. Fat provides a more long-term, slower burning fuel supply.

For the many people who are sedentary and overeat, and especially eat lots of refined carbs, this is bad, because they are generally going around with filled stores of glycogen and provoking large insulin releases that are filling up their fat cells. And a larger spike in blood sugar tends to cause a larger over-production of insulin (the body tends to overshoot a bit in its desparate attempt to bring circulating blood sugar back down to a sane level), which causes a big drop in blood sugar... which makes the person hungry and craving sugar all over again. It's a vicious cycle.

But for someone who's already lean and trying to gain muscle, purposely eating a modest amount of simple carbs in the morning and after a workout is helpful. A good night's sleep (after which you presumably have gone 8+ hours without eating anything) and a good workout (during which you presumably have burned a lot of energy) both have the effect of depleting your body's supply of glycogen. Hence, at those times, insulin will favor taking glucose to the liver and muscles for conversion to glycogen rather than adding it to your fat.

This isn't just a "hey it's okay because it won't make me fat" kind of thing, it's a "really good to do if you're trying to build muscle" kind of thing because if you let your glycogen supply stay low, your body (in an attempt to conserve what little you have left) will try to burn energy from other supplies instead--one of those other supplies is fat, which is great if you're trying to lose fat, but another one of those supplies is the proteins in your muscles. Obviously, if you're trying to build muscle, then you don't want your body breaking down muscle for energy! You want to fill up the glycogen fuel tank to encourage your body to hold onto your muscle and use the protein you ingest to make more.

[Chris]

Rhone, beautiful post... Do you have a background in biochemistry? You've described the glucose cycle very well....

One other thing that it's important to note... You can have some fun with these simple sugars. They can come in the form of white bread, gummy bears, table sugar, watermelon, etc... but keep in mind that fat slows carb digestion. So white bread with butter defeats the purpose. It's a good excuse to eat that bagel you may have been craving, but unfortunately for glycogen purposes we need to forgo the cream cheese.

Generally when trying to bulk, it's not critical that our diets are as strict as during the cut phase... but don't underestimate the importance of nutrition.. I've found that it's actually the key to making the plan work. If nutrition is off, the results will be off. Plain and simple.

[Rhone]

Thanks for the compliment, Chris. Most of my knowledge on nutrition and exercise-related physiology is from stuff I've studied on my own (I don't like to do things because someone says so, I like to do my research and know why and how something does or doesn't work). But I'll admit it does help a little bit that I'm a future nurse who just finished taking an Anatomy and Physiology test covering the skeletal, muscle, and endocrine systems.

[jaypunkrawk]

Well I'm trying to gain mass. I have some fat on me, but not much. It's mostly in my mid section as my arms and legs are fairly skinny. At this point I'm not worried so much about being cut, because I don't have enough muscle to want to have that cut look. I've already lost about 4 pounds in 3 weeks on BFL. Perhaps I should focus on gaining muscle and eating some simple carbs to help me do that?

[Chris]

It's not so much eating simple carbs, but eating simple carbs at the right time that makes a difference... but that's not entirely true either. This is simply a timing tip... If you really want to put on some muscle mass, focus on total calories for the day. EAT EAT EAT! The majority of this must come from complex carbs, protein, and healthy fats.

I look forward to more discussions on weight gain.

[zzdub]

Exactly Chris. Dextrose is the way to go. Add some of that into your post workout shake and it's a little more delicious. Or just have 8 oz. of Gatorade or an orange, apple, etc. after you workout. You need some carbs after you workout to keep the metabolism going.

[sshultz]

Time to bring this thread back to life.

Most of what I read about the bulking cycle involves putting on a fair amount of fat as well. I know that's probably because a lot of people take it to the extreme and eat whatever they want. So what I want to do is to put on some muscle mass without putting on a lot of extra fat. Ok, ok, I know it's very difficult to build muscle and lose fat at the same time but hey, I'm up for it. As someone who still has some body fat to lose, is adding the simple sugars in the morning something I should consider? I am working out hard (see my blog) and I'm already making strength gains. I've been losing body fat pretty well and don't really want to do anything to hinder that.

[Chris]

You may still be in that "initial recomposition" phase that allows beginners to do both at the same time (gain mass and lose body fat). Not that you are new to this, but the higher intensity workouts are relatively "new" to you.

But, if you just go for a mild increase in calories and put it on slowly, then you'll be better equipped to gain more muscle than fat. In the end though, you have to decide which is more important to you. Do you want mass or reduced body fat? You can't have both at the same time... even though I just said you might, don't count on it...
I recently decided to continue adding mass b/c I'm not where I want to be size-wise yet. So I'm not concerned about seeing my 6 pack for a while.

Back to your question... Eating simple carbs in the morning along with a quick dose of protein helps get you out of the over night catabolic state and will give you a boost of testosterone. This is a natural growth hormone boost. So go for it! 1 scoop whey and about 40g carbs. Eat this as soon as you wake up. Then eat a normal (big) breakfast about 45 minutes later.

[JoelMarion]

Feel free to ask any of your mass gaining questions that I may be able to help with. As you may know, my transformation packed 22.5 lbs of muscle on my frame in just 12 weeks, and I'm more than 50+ lbs of muscle ahead of where I started today.

To your body transformation success,

[sshultz]

Thanks, Chris. I always appreciate your direct easy to understand responses and your advice is top-notch.

Joel, thanks for the offer. So I have to admit, I haven't googled you yet. But since you made the offer.... What workout were you using to gain that kind of muscle in 12 weeks? Was it the one described in the book/web site? I can imagine you're eating was spot on for those kinds of gains. I'm assuming you went for a calorie surplus as well. Did you track your calories (I do now)? How did you figure your maintenance level? And how much above your maintenance level did you go?

[sallywally]

Hey guys, I find this thread most interesting.. I am in in the middle of my Bfl (weeks 5-6) I think I am still in the "initial recomposition" phase that Chris mentions and also have a whey shake post workout (only sometimes add a small amount of chopped fruit) but like to get that protein in 40-60 mins after workout. I am a bit concerned that as you say you need some carbs after you workout to keep the metabolism going, that I am not often doing this. Maybe I should also mention that as I have to got to work before the gym opens, I do all my exercise in the evening, so after my shake, I am usually heading off to bed, perhaps not worth worrying too much about the carbs then or am I wrong?
Thanks, Sally

[Chris]

No, always consume carbs after a workout. This is the most important time to have them. In your situation I would suggest making your shake with milk and adding a little bit of cottage cheese (this adds casein, which is slow digesting). But also add some fast digesting carbs, sugar, sports drinks, etc. Do this as soon as possible after your workout (perhaps even take it to the gym with you and drink on the way home). Then you could consume a small amount of slow digesting carbs just before bed. Something like an apple, a banana, or piece of wheat toast.

[sallywally]

Thanks for that Chris, this is awesome as I really need this info to seek the changes I want. I hope I haven't done too much damage. I am in my 7th week now, have never missed the workouts (actually, once fell asleep on sofa one evening and missed workout as so exhausted from my work and travel, so did that workout on my 7th day) apart from that, really trying hard to do it by the book. That is a silly mistake to make though. Thank you for the good advice, Sally

[khujo]

Originally Posted by Chris

No, always consume carbs after a workout. This is the most important time to have them. Something like an apple, a banana, or piece of wheat toast.

If I always drink a Myoplex (just regular not lite or carb control) after lifting, do those have enough carbs (23g) in them that I do not need to add something like a piece of fruit?

[Chris]

Are you trying to gain weight/ build muscle? If so, the answer is yes, eat some more carbs than this... about 40g or more.

[exinfris]

How do you guys think this would stack up for a mass building training and nutritional program, or should I go with the BFL.

Ok, so here is the story. It all starts in 2005 while being deployed to Iraq, I had the unfortuate luck of finding out how dangerous IED's are. Didn't lose anything (thank God), but my back was broken in three places, and both shoulders were dislocated. The Army wanted to fuse my back, which I told them to "Go to Hell", this worked out to my benefit, as today I can walk, which is something they said I would probably never do again.
Anyway, it has been a long hard road coming back and I have finally gotten clearance from my Doc to start weight training on a serious level.
So here is my Training and Nutritional Program, I ask that you guys take a look at it and tell me what you think. Please keep in mind that I work from 3PM to 11:30PM Mon thru Fri, and I can not do any of my training in the afternoon like I would like. So my training takes place between 9-10:30 Am, currently I weight about 190 at approx 24% body fat. My goal is for mass and strength while not becoming a blimp. Alot of what I do is with machine as I do not have a training partner, and the injuries keep me from other exercises.

Training Program: Plan on using it for about 16 weeks before changing it up.
Day 1 Chest and Tri's Sets per exercise: 4 Reps: *12/8/8/6/6 *12 is a warm-up set only performed on the first exercise.
Incline Bench (machine)
Bench Press (machine)
Decline Bench (machine)
Flyes (machine)
Seated Dumbell Overhead Extension
Close-grip Bench
Tricep cable Press

Day 2 Legs and Calves Sets and Reps same as above.
Hack Squat (can not do regular squats due to back)
Leg Extensions (machine)
Leg Curls (machine)
Romanian Deadlifts
Seated Calf Raises (not to worried about calf size, mine are huge and still very strong)

Day 3 Rest 2X 20 min sessions in steam room or sauna, and 45 min in whirlpool (good relaxation therapy).

Day 4 Back and Bi's Sets and Reps same as above.
Front Pulldowns
T-bar Row (machine)
Close Grip Row
Front Lateral Pulldowns
Barbell Curl
One armed Dumbell Preacher Curls
Hammer Curls

Day 5 Shoulders and Traps Set and Reps same as above
Overhead Press
Barbell Upright Rows
Lateral Raises
Barbell Shrugs
Dumbell Shrugs

Day 6 Rest 2X 20 min session in Steamroom or Sauna, and 45 min in whirlpool (again good relaxation therapy).

Day 7 Start all over again.

Nutritional Program:

Wake: Scoop of protein, and an apple or bananna.

30 to 60 min later: 3 whole eggs + 3 egg whites, 1 cup of leaf spinach (chopped), 1.25 cups (dry measure) oatmeal.

2-3 hrs later: 8oz low-fat Greek Yogurt + 1 scoop protein (non training days) 2 scoops on training days +1 Tbsp Peanut Butter.

Pre workout: 1 scoop protein + large apple

Post workout: 2 scoops protein + 30 Gummibears (yeah I know how that sounds)

1 hr after post workout: chicken breast + 2 slices whole wheat bread + an orange

2-3 hrs later: 2 scoops of protein + 8 oz of walnut halves +1 Tbsp Peanut Butter

2-3 hrs later: 8oz of 93% lean ground beef, or 8oz Salmon steak, or other fish + 2 cups salad with oil and vinager + 1 cup of Brocolli.

2-3 hrs later: 1 cup Fat Free Cottage Cheese + 1 scoop Protein.


Well there you have it. Please tell me what you think.

[Chris]

Hi there! I can see you've put a lot of thought into this program. That's great! Oh, and congratulations on making it through everything ok, that's a feat in and of itself.

Your diet looks pretty good for gaining mass. Although I wouldn't suggest doing that just yet. With 20% body fat, you've got a significant amount of cutting to do before you should start trying to build muscle. This is of course just my opinion, but I've been frustrated with trying to bulk with high body fat before. It's too hard to tell if the weight you're gaining is muscle or is fat. If I were you, I'd really focus on getting down to about 10% body fat. You have a decent amount of lean body mass already, you will most likely look pretty ripped once you trim the fat.

Now onto your workout.... That's too much, IMO. I totally identify with the desire to hit your muscles from every possible angle, but it's just not that necessary at this point in your training. I'm currently doing barbell only workouts and just doing the basic moves (squat, bench, shoulder press, dead lift, rows) along with a few supplemental exercises such as chins and pull ups, push ups and dips, and some basic core training. Since you are coming off this serious injury, I would bet it's better for you to develop a very well balanced body. You'll want balanced strength and with a military career, you'll probably want it to be "useful strength" as well.... That doesn't come from machines, which only train you on a fixed plain. It's better to start with very low weights and build a solid foundation using free weights. Imagine building a house, gotta make sure the foundation is solid before trying to put up the siding.
BFL may be a good plan for you, but also consider a strength training plan. I'm currently doing stronglifts 5x5 and love it Build Muscle & Lose Fat Through Strength Training | StrongLifts.com

BFL is a great program though too, and I'd be happy to help coach you along that path too. Good luck!

[exinfris]

Thanks for the feedback. I remember doing 5 X 5's in High School, worked well for me then do not see a reason why they can't work for me again. Guess finally getting the ok to rebuild my body into it's old self got the better of me. After looking at my program I realize it is a little excessive. The last thing I want to do is re-injure myself. I will keep you guys posted on my progress and I'm sure I will be asking alot more questions in the future.