Riddle me this, Batman...

[Dulish]

I haven't lost an OUNCE in four weeks. Not one ounce. I am seeing a little more definition in my body and I'm feeling much stronger, but not an OUNCE of change LOL (this is why I hate weighing myself... I get obsessed).

So, riddle me this. I have been eating clean with only one or two small "oops" in the last month. I've made EVERY workout except two (one lower body, one HIIT, and I made up the HIIT). Here's my schedule:

Monday/Weds/Fri: Weights + cardio 30 - 40 mins at 80%+
Tuesday/Thurs: HIIT followed by an hour of yoga
Saturday: HIIT
Sunday: maybe yoga... often I just take the day completely off

My free food day is Friday because when I take free food day on the same day as no workout, I feel like crap.

I log every freaking bite that goes in my mouth.

I'm NOT eating enough, because on daily plate, I've almost always got the "you've got XX calories left today". TDP has me eating 1,111 cals a day to lose 1.5 lbs a week (plus the cals I work off at the gym). I've stayed pretty close to that number, but typically end up, as I said, with cals left over because of working out.

What gives? Do I seriously need to just eat more? Why am I the only person on the planet who gets FATTER when I don't eat enough? If the body hangs onto fat when it goes into "starvation mode" why aren't all anorexics fat??

WTF? I'm cranky and crabby and I feel like I'm working my ass off for nothing now. I will post pics tomorrow... ugh.

[Chris]

OH, you're not eating enough!

Is that right, 1,111 calories per day? No way! With all that exercise (and your current body weight) I'd guess it should be much closer to 2K.

Or Am I reading this wrong? It sounds like you're saying you're being prescribed 1100 calories per day and you still don't hit this quota?

[Dulish]

Yeah... (ducks head and hides)... I'm only eating about 1111 cals a day... and sometimes I actually hit that.

Good to know that's the problem LOL.... I'm cranky at myself.

So is the TDP calculator for daily calories that far off or is it because I'm not eating my "exercise calories"?

Geebus, it's going to be really hard to get that many cals in.. whine, complain..... LOLOL. I *will* do it. If for no other reason than to prove to myself that I can LOL!

Thanks for the reply

[Rhone]

It's often recommended that men shouldn't go under 1800 cals as a minimum and that women shouldn't go under 1200.

I wouldn't recommend going as high as 2000 for you (for maintenance, maybe, but not for weight loss), though; I think around 1300-1500 would be a good target. In case you've hit a plateau, I would seriously consider going up to 2000 or so just for a week (and cutting out the extra cardio for that week), then drop back down to 1300-1500 and add the extra cardio back in. That should kick your fat loss back into gear.

Also, is it possible for you to schedule your extra cardio for a different time of day than your weight workouts? I guess that might be hard if you're doing it all at a gym, but I think it would benefit you. You get a bit of a metabolism boost for a little bit after a workout, but later on your metabolism will drop from the calorie deficit (especially if you're relatively sedentary in that time-frame). By splitting up the weight workout and the extra cardio, you could get two boosts instead of one.

Regarding anorexics: When the body loses fat too fast it throws out all sorts of hormones to try to hold onto it (and store more of it like crazy when possible), but there's only so much it can hold onto when you're eating next to nothing. If you're eating less than what your body absolutely requires for survival, then your body will be pretty much forced to cannibalize itself--but it will eat away at muscle just as rapidly as fat. That, of course, is plain to see from the very depressing skin-covered skeleton appearance that most anorexics end up with.

[yakubu]

Originally Posted by Dulish

I haven't lost an OUNCE in four weeks. Not one ounce. I am seeing a little more definition in my body and I'm feeling much stronger, but not an OUNCE of change LOL (this is why I hate weighing myself... I get obsessed).

So, riddle me this. I have been eating clean with only one or two small "oops" in the last month. I've made EVERY workout except two (one lower body, one HIIT, and I made up the HIIT). Here's my schedule:

Monday/Weds/Fri: Weights + cardio 30 - 40 mins at 80%+
Tuesday/Thurs: HIIT followed by an hour of yoga
Saturday: HIIT
Sunday: maybe yoga... often I just take the day completely off

My free food day is Friday because when I take free food day on the same day as no workout, I feel like crap.

I log every freaking bite that goes in my mouth.

I'm NOT eating enough, because on daily plate, I've almost always got the "you've got XX calories left today". TDP has me eating 1,111 cals a day to lose 1.5 lbs a week (plus the cals I work off at the gym). I've stayed pretty close to that number, but typically end up, as I said, with cals left over because of working out.

What gives? Do I seriously need to just eat more? Why am I the only person on the planet who gets FATTER when I don't eat enough? If the body hangs onto fat when it goes into "starvation mode" why aren't all anorexics fat??

WTF? I'm cranky and crabby and I feel like I'm working my ass off for nothing now. I will post pics tomorrow... ugh.

i think the problem lies in those crazy workouts you do on monday, wed, fri.

weight training creates muscle. more muscle means the body needs more energy therefore you lose weight. the actual weight sessions burn fat during and after, plus when uve built muscle from the workout that burns fat cos ur body needs more energy to contain the muscle.

you should put a lot of enphasis on ur wieghts sessions and building muscle but by doing cardio on the same day as the weights you are seriously jepardizing this .

if you insist on extra cardio (i dont agree with any extra but if u insist) then add 10 mins of a level 7-8 to the end of your 20 mins hiit on a tue , thurs and sat, and also do an extra session on sunday but make sure its not hiit and that its just moderate cardio.
never mix cardio and weights ont he same day and just scrap the yoga. this advise comes from a guy who knows wot he is talking about, i got it from the hussman website.

[Chris]

Your exercise calories are going to be quite significant. By that I mean, the deficit created by all the extra work you are doing. This is a good thing for most people because a deficit from food feels like a "diet". In your case, it sounds like you are eating as much as you "want" but it's not adding up to much in the way of calories.. right? And it sounds like you enjoy your current level of fitness, as in you're not interested in doing less, right?

So here's what I suggest... all those little things we tell people to cut out because they add too many misc. calories, well, eat them! Cream in your coffee, cheese on your eggs, an extra glass of milk or OJ (or with your meal), etc. These are easy ways to boost your calorie intake. Another option is nuts. Get in the habit of eating a handful of nuts every day. Olive oil, flax oil, coconut oil, etc. are healthy fats and can also boost your calorie intake.
The point is, you don't have to necessarily eat "more", you can just make a few minor adjustments that make each meal higher in calories. Your situation is basically the opposite of everyone else, who's used to eating way too many calories.

I'm sure this will make all the difference for you.

[Chris]

Also, try calculating your BMR and AMR apart from the daily plate site. Their database is great, but I don't know that I agree 100% with their take on how fitness fits into the plan.

And don't get "greedy" with the weight loss. It should be slow and steady. I'd shoot for no more than a 500 calorie deficit from food, and cycle these calories. Each day change the number of calories you eat by about 200 to 300 to keep your body guessing. (1 day at maintenance, next day at maint. minus 200, 3rd day maint minus 500, then back to maintenance level.
The rest of your deficit will come from working out.

[Dulish]

Thanks for the info, Chris... lots to process. Lots of good ideas, too!!

Yeah, my problem is I eat as much as I "want" of clean stuff but the calories just aren't high enough. I will try adding in the little "extras" and see if that gets me up to a decent level that was an awesome idea!

I'm stuffed to the gills tonight and I am still at a 400 calorie deficit (after workout)... I feel like I should just go and eat a freaking bowl of ice cream, but I don't want the sugars and fats... ugh. Do you know how much broccoli, watermelon, etc. it takes to make 400 calories? LOLOLOL. It doesn't help that I didn't get to the grocery store today. I will definitely get there tomorrow!

Thanks again for the advice! And, you're right, I do love the workouts and don't want to do less. The yoga is a godsend to my mental health and I don't have the flexibility with the kids etc. to go to the gym twice a day... and if I don't do it at the gym, it's not getting done iykwim!

[Dulish]

Oy vey!

I just did my BMR on four different websites and it comes out to about 1340 - 50 cals a day... my AMR (only counting my exercise, not time spent sitting around, etc.) is over 1950!!!!!

So, to lose 1.5 lbs a week, I should have a deficit of 750 cals a day off of my *AMR*?? that would be about 1200 cals, right? So, I need to eat WAY more.

So far today (it's 5pm) I've eaten a little over 600 cals and tdp says "you can eat an additional 1300 calories today! OMG... I soooo have to plan better than this!!!!!

So, 1200/6 = 200 cals per "meal"... though I'm thinking I'll have three 300 cal meals and 3 100 cal snacks... does that sound OK? Geebus... I had no idea I was THAT far off. No wonder I'm not losing anything, my poor body thinks it's starving!!

Crap. Now I'm pissed at myself.

Thanks for helping me to look at this more closely and figure out the issues, guys!

I appreciate it!

[statona]

Do you mind sharing your diet on a day when its 5pm and you have had only 500 calories. Wow... that seems like so little... how do you even get through the day?

[Dulish]

Hi Andy

OK... here's what I ate yesterday:

Breakfast: protein MR shake: 1 scoop whey, 1 cup frozen berries, 3/4 c lowfat plain yogurt, water (approx. 200 cals)

Snack: pb protein ball from gym (150 cals) (this was post workout)

Lunch: Salad: 5 c. romaine lettuce, assorted veggies, 3 oz chicken breast, vinaigrette on the side for dressing (approx 200 cals)

Snack: Watermelon (approx. 50 cals)

Then left home to run errands, pick up dogs, two doc appts. forgot snacks. 550 cals eaten and it's 5pm... my bad for forgetting snacks... but even so, I probably would have only eaten one, maybe an EAS advantedge shake or something, so another 100 cals.

Dinner last night I had some leftover ravioli (spinach and cheese) with pesto to try and make up some calories... it turned out to only be about 300 cals LOL.... so then I ate some steak (leftover) and some nuts a bit later. I ended up right at my "goal" of 1900 cals for the day, but holy crap, I had to force myself to eat that last bit. Ugh.

I know what I need to do is plan better... make sure I'm eating about 300 cals PER MEAL... geebus. I am guessing this is how I got fat in the first place... not eating enough and working out sporadically. Carp.

Well, I am trying to look at this as a learning experience. I now realize what the issue is and I know how to fix it. That's a good thing

Got home... it's 5pm and I've eaten

[Rhone]

The thing that jumps out at me, aside from obviously the low calorie count, is the lack of carbs! That alone would keep your metabolism low, IMO.

Breakfast looks fine. Find a carb to go with that chicken at lunch. I don't know the contents of your "protein ball" after your workout, but if it's supposed to be high protein and is only 150 calories, then I'm guessing it has very few carbs. If there is one time where it's best to be getting more calories and carbs, it's in that first meal after the workout. I think that is very much a make-or-break kind of thing as far as keeping your metabolism up.

I won't even comment on the 50 calorie snack.

Anyway, I would ditch the low carb EAS shakes and replace them with either Myoplex Lite or (if you are going for 300 cals/meal) regular Myoplex. I don't think you need to go all the way up to 1800-2000 calories (unless you're doing it temporarily to boost your metabolism like I suggested); that's how much I eat per day for weight loss and I'm nearly 100lbs heavier than you. After you get your metabolism up, I think 225-250 per meal is a good target for you.

If it's hard for you to get down that much food, then you can try to get a bigger proportion of it as liquids... Myoplex, protein powder shakes with fruit blended in, etc.

[KingV]

It definitely seems that you're not following body for life, you're eating 6 times a day, but some of your snacks have either a lack of carbs or a lack of protein. If you're going to drink the low carb Myoplex's (I like them too, particularly the rich dark chocolate. Chase it with a piece of fruit, which makes it a complete BFL meal.

The other thing is, if you're seeing more definition, your body is changing, and your adding muscle. Remember muscle weighs more than fat, so a little bit more muscle means you've lost quite a bit more fat by volume. And well, volume is what you most likely REALLY care about (i.e. having less volume of fat on your body). I haven't lost but maybe 1 or 2 lbs of weight on body for life in 5 weeks, but if you look at me now, vice my Day 1 picture, you can tell that I've clearly lost weight around my gut and am more muscular and trim overall. I suspect part of the problem is that you may be experiencing the same thing but have become obsessed with scale weight.

[Chris]

I don't think either of you are eating enough (Rhone or Dulish). Lo, I like the sound of your AMR. Get yourself up to this amount for a week and don't cycle yet. It's important to get your metabolism cranked up.

Don't be afraid of carbs. I like to eat a big bowl of oatmeal in the morning with a scoop of whey. Accompany this with a glass of milk, a banana, and a multivitamin. This will set the foundation for your day.
Post workout you want a dose of protein and some quick carbs. This is a great time for some protein mixed with gatorade. Have 2 scoops of whey and at least 40 grams worth of carbs. This is also a great time for your watermelon, but eat MORE of it.

These will get you well on your way, but you can add 1T olive oil to your salad. Get in the habit of making sandwiches. 2 slices of whole grain bread is already pushing 200 calories (or more). You can have chicken, tuna, or egg salad on it and you'll get yourself some protein. The mayo will add some fat calories (I'm a big fan of the omega-3 smart balance mayo).

Eat like this for a week and see how you do. Then you can start experimenting with cycling calories.

Rhone, double check your calorie counts. That seems low to me. I eat 2500 calories (or more) and I'm 170.

[Rhone]

Chris,

My 1800-2000 calorie target is for weight loss (and is also pretty close to what the "fist-sized portion" rule would get me), not what I would eat for maintenance or muscle gain. I'm assuming you are not trying to lose ~2lbs per week on your 2500 calories per day, right? (Just for fun, I'll mention that my higher calorie weeks I mentioned in my Results thread will be 3600/day.)

As for where I'm getting my calorie target from, I'm using the same formula used by www.hussmanfitness.com's BMR calculator. I put the formula in a spreadsheet where I record my weekly weights and BF% to make it super convenient for me. If I go by the BF% my Omron tells me (or told me at the end of C1), my BMR would be 1885. If I go by the more generous BF% shown by Accu-Measure calipers, then my BMR would be 1969. I figure eating close to BMR and burning off the fat with whatever I do with my AMR is one decent way to approach it.

Hussman suggests, as a rule of thumb, 9-11 calories per pound of lean bodyweight for fat loss. For me that's 1425 - 1741 or 1529 - 1869 (depending on which BF% I go by). But I've read elsewhere that, generally, men shouldn't go below 1800 and women shouldn't go below 1200. So I make a point of not going below 1800 (300 calories being the target for each of my six meals), but I give myself some leeway to go up to 2000 so that, for example, I can toss a slice of cheese on my turkey burgers, or I can get a skinny latte from Starbucks if I feel I really need to treat myself.

I feel pretty good about that approach, but if you have another perspective I'm happy to hear it. I'll say right now, though, that I strongly disagree with any BMR formula that is based on total weight instead of lean weight. I've had Tanita scales tell me I could eat 4000+ calories. If I could do that I wouldn't have gotten fat in the first place.

[Chris]

Rhone, I'm going to have to think about this for a bit. I see your logic, but something isn't clicking for me. I'll go back and review my notes and let you know.