20lbs of fat to lose!

[Daveace]

Hi all,

Just finished wk5 and in general I feel really good about myself and the program. I am loving going to the gym and the food side of things is a lot easier now I'm in a routine. However, I'm getting a little impatient with how quickly the fat is coming off. I've only just bought some calipers so I can't say exactly how much fat I've already lost but I know I've got 20lbs of fat left to lose and I don't feel it's coming off quickly enough.

I took photos at the start and at the end of wk4 and although you can see some muscle gain overall I look exactly the same. I've counted calories and I'm averaging around 1800-1900 per day (and I never feel hungry) with around 170gms of protein. I'm 6ft and weigh 172lbs with a bfp of 19%.

Does all of this sound OK or can anyone suggest where I could improve? Feel free to tell me to stop being so impatient as I know a lot of people say the fat doesn't start to come off until wk4. Is 20lbs of fat loss realistic by wk12?

Any advice or support would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Dave

[Chris]

It's hard to go strictly by quantity of fat to lose. It's better to set a goal for a specific amount of body fat to lose and to go from there... That is, even at your absolute leanest, you'll still have a certain portion of fat. A goal for single-digit body fat is common, but so is say 5% reduction.

In order for either of these scenarios you'll have to not just lose fat, but to gain muscle. Unless you're very new to training, that big of a shift can be quite difficult.
What is your current goal? Is it to lose body fat or to gain muscle? Those are actually 2 different goals and have 2 different strategies for success. Would you like to stay the same weight and exchange your fat for muscle? This is probably ideal, but it takes longer.

I know this probably didn't answer your question. Keep up the good work. You're doing fine.

[Jared]

Ya Chris's point about body comp is an important one ... you say 20lbs of fat to lose ... being currently 172 @ 19% means you've got 32.68lbs of fat. So losing 20 pounds of that would put you at 7.4% fat .

What method of bf% measurement are you using?

[Daveace]

Jared - you are spot on. Sub 10% bf would be great. The goal is for visible abs, which is something I've never had. I am using the Accu-measure calipers.

Before I started BFL I hadn't done any resistance training in over 5 years so nearly all muscle is new muscle. I have never been overweight but my bf % has always been +20% (judging from my belly).

My BMI is just about right so I would like to keep the same weight but replace the fat with muscle.

[jamesgarcia]

Can you post a sample day of your eating and any supplements you might be taking?

[Daveace]

Breakfast (post workout) - Protein shake and banana

Meal 2 - Ham salad sandwich (wholemeal bread, low fat spread, lean ham, carrot and lettuce) + protein shake

Meal 3 - Protein shake and banana

Meal 4 - Salad sandwich (wholemeal bread, low fat spread, meat substitute, carrot and lettuce) + protein shake

Meal 5 - Chilli and baked potato or Spagetti bolognese using wholewheat spagetti etc

Meal 6 - Ham salad sandwich + protein shake

I know it's a bit boring but I'm in the car most of the day so I need stuff I can prepare the night before and carry around with me.

All of this is approx 1900 cal, 55-60 gms of fat, 240 gms of carbs and 175 gms of protein. I drink around 1.5-2 litres of water on top of the water I use to make the protein shakes up spread throughout the day. I workout first thing in the morning and then eat straight after on weights days or 1 hour after on cardio days, then every 2-3 hours after that with my last meal at around 9pm.

Please let me know if I've missed anything out.

[Chris]

I think you're underestimating your calories. protein shakes are about 140 calories each, bread is usually about 100 calories per slice. So you easily have 500 calories in each of those sandwich meals... 500 x 3 = 1500. Then add another 260 for each shake + banana meal and you're at 2020 without counting meal 5....

You could be eating a lot healthier than this list too, but I don't have time to critique it just now. Maybe others will help you out.

[Daveace]

Thanks for taking the time to reply Chris.

I've double checked the manufactuers information and the calorie count is correct. The protein shakes are 98 calories and the sandwiches are around 240 calories.

As I said I know it's not ideal but I'm getting enough veggies and considering I have to carry my food around with me all day it's the only way I've been able to balance the protein and carb in each meal.

[BlakeD]

One unknown variable is how many calories you're consuming on your free day. The way I understand things, losing fat is all about consuming fewer calories than you burn, and making sure that you're eating enough protein to keep your muscle so that when your body has to turn to something to burn to make up for the calorie deficit, it will turn to fat rather than to muscle. You seem to be doing fine with the protein, and so perhaps your slow weight loss is a function of not creating a large enough calorie deficit (i.e., eating too many calories). According to some quick calculations on the internet, your BMR is around 1850 calories, meaning you burn 1850 calories a day, without taking into consideration any exercise or how active of a lifestyle you have. If you exercise 6 days a week, that may mean that you burn 300-500 calories for each of those sessions, depending on how intense they are. You indicate that you're in the car most of the day, and so it might be that you don't get much other exercise.

If all of those assumptions are correct (and I realize they might not be), that means you might burn approximately 15,000 to 16,000 calories each week. And if you're eating 1900 calories for each of your 6 non-cheat days, that adds up to 11,400 calories. Which means that if on your cheat day you have 3,000 calories, you basically have no calorie deficit for the week (and you might even consume more than 3,000 calories, if your cheat days are anything like mine!).

If you're wanting to lose 1 pound a week, you need to create a calorie deficit of 3,500 calories for the week; if you're wanting to lose 2 pounds a week, you need to create a calorie deficit of 7,000 calories a week. Which means that if you want to lose fat, you need to (1) reduce your calories on your non-cheat days by a little bit (perhaps to 1600?) and/or (2) make sure you don't go too crazy on your cheat days.

Again, I am not a biologist or nutritionist, so if anyone disagrees with this, please feel free to chime in. I recognize that you might burn more calories per day if your job or lifestyle does involve more activity than riding in the car all day, and I also recognize that there are other factors that can affect weight loss besides a pure mathematical calculation of calorie deficit, such as stress. But it might be worth a try for a week or two to reduce your calories and tone down the cheat day to see if that helps.

[Chris]

Blake, that's a pretty good response. You're pretty close to the right track, but I disagree on a couple points...

1) Freeday is your reset button. That is, if you consume the same 500 calorie deficit every day of the week, without taking a free day it only accounts for 1lb a week initially. After a short time the body adapts to the deficit and it no longer applies. Also because as our weight drops, so do the calories from which we make the calculations, but I digress... Free day is the reset button. It resets the deficit each week. It is recommended to eat at least 500 calories more than you usually do, and it's ok if some of them are even more extreme.

2)According to your math above.. BMI 1850 x 6 workout days = 11,100. If your estimate for workouts are correct, then 6 x 500 = 3000. 3000 + 111000 = 14100 calories burned per week given exercise but no other activity (not counting free day). So 1900 calories consumed x 6 = 11,400.... 11,400 - 14100 = 2700 calorie deficit... assuming high intensity workouts. But there's more to this story. Even if he sits for the majority of the day, there is still the afterburn affect of building muscle. Weight training and HIIT cardio burn fat calories long after the gym and it's hard to estimate this....

BUT, you are correct in aiming for a 3500 calorie reduction to lose 1 lb. and the rest of your post is great.

[Chris]

That being said, if you are not losing body fat then the math is indeed off. Possible scenarios: too active and the deficit is crippling the system (starving effect), not large enough deficit (more likely). If the deficit is too small you can either reduce your intake of calories or do more exercise... both of which are recommended.

[Chris]

Now to the diet... sorry, I knew this would be long so I decided to break it up...

It's not that your meal plan is "bad". It's just far from ideal.


You are drinking too many protein shakes, IMO. I suggest having 2 servings after your workout, then lay off them the rest of the day (or perhaps another in the afternoon with banana for convenience sake). Start eating more lean meats, less processed sandwiches, and more veggies. I suggest trying to fill up on giant salads. Add sliced chicken breast, vinaigrette dressing (don't over do it), cheese (again, easy does it), nuts, seeds, etc. You might be surprised how long this will stick with you (if the salad is large enough).

The whole grain bread is fine, but I'm just not that excited about the number of sandwiches you eat each day. Ham is loaded with sodium, although it's lean, it's far from the ideal protein. Try some other lean meats instead.

Do you like boiled eggs? These are portable and good sources of protein. So is canned tuna.

I realize that it's difficult to heat things when you're on the road, but that doesn't have to stop you from eating more healthy. Again, it's not that your diet is necessarily bad, it's just not ideal. A few tweaks and you'll be all set.

[Daveace]

Thanks to everyone who posted. I'm going to tweak my meals and use the calipers again in a week or so and see how much fat I've lost and then go from there.

A couple more questions:
1 - Why are protein shakes a bad thing when they are combined with whole foods to make up a "full meal"?
2 - Apart from water retention, what damage does sodium do in the short term? I know it's not great for heart health and blood pressure in the long term.

[Daveace]

In order to increase calorie deficit, could I swim a few laps of the pool after cardio and/or weights or would that reduce the effectiveness of my current workouts?

[BlakeD]

Chris - thanks for your responses to my post -- I think they make perfect sense.

Dave -- I think the reason protein shakes are a "bad thing" is that they are not "real food." Even though the BFL nutrition plan speaks in terms of protein, carbs, fat, and calories, not all proteins (for example) are created equal. It's certainly convenient that EAS has figured out a way to manufacture a product that contains protein without too much fat or carbs. But, if you can substitute real protein (lentils, some beans, lean meats, etc.) for the fake protein, your body will respond better because those real sources of protein contain other good things for your body that aren't included in the fake protein (e.g, phytochemicals, micronutrients). I'm not against protein shakes, protein bars, etc., because they are extremely convenient, but I agree with Chris to use them sparingly and only when necessary.

As to your second post, I think adding in extra light cardio is an excellent way to increase your calorie deficit. I believe I've seen lots of people post on this site that if you add in low to moderate intensity cardio on your weight training days and even your free day, you'll see better results (so long as it's not high intensity cardio, because you have to give your body a chance to recover).

[dankelt]

I have a few observations, first of which is the fact that you're lean mass, at 139lbs, is a bit low. And as you said you would like to stay at the same weight but just replace the fat with muscle. For most people, putting on 20lbs of muscle is going to be a lot harder than taking off 20lbs of fat. Losing 20lbs of fat or gaining 20lbs of muscle in 12 weeks is definitely possible, but doing both may be asking a bit much.

I think you need to ask yourself, what goal do you want to focus on first. Either gain the muscle or lose the fat. There is a third option that takes quite a bit more discipline in which you cycle between the two every few weeks.

The macro breakdown that you listed of: 60 gms of fat, 240 gms of carbs and 175 gms of protein actually comes out to 2200 calories. That isn't taking into account fiber, but that's going to be negligible. Overall I think your current caloric intake will allow for some fat loss and some muscle gain, but I don't think you'll see drastic changes in either. If you want to gain muscle you may want to bump the calories up a bit and maybe even reduce your cardio. If you want to drop fat you'll want to just lower your calories a bit.

From a physiological standpoint I think dropping the fat first is the way to go. You'll start seeing results much sooner which will help keep you motivated.

-Dan

[Daveace]

Just a quick update - I used the calipers for the second time yesterday and since the beginning of the month I have lost 3.5 lbs of fat whilst gaining 1.5 lbs of muscle. My body fat percentage has gone down to 15%!

I am so excited to see measureable results and to know I'm moving in the right direction. A big thank you to everone who took the time to respond and give words of encouragment. I'll be sure to post photos when I hit wk12.

[blahman]

I am on week 9 and kinda got hung up on the bfat measurements early on not going down quick enough. But I Can visibly see big difference in muscles and so not paying too much attention to fat tests anymore.

[Jared]

That's a good idea. My caliper tests have been iffy for me, but the best test is always the "mirror test" I think.

[Daveace]

Originally Posted by Jared

That's a good idea. My caliper tests have been iffy for me, but the best test is always the "mirror test" I think.

I disagree. I think photos are a good idea but the mirror has never really been good for me, as some days I am really pleased with how I look and other days I feel I look exactly the same as I did at the start. It is so subjective and depends on how you feel.

It is good to finally have some numbers to prove I'm moving in the right direction.

Make sure you are taking the caliper measurements on the same day (I am going to do mine every second Sunday) and at the same time of day. I also get my wife to take the measurements as doing it yourself is a nightmare. We also take every measurement at least three times to make sure the readings are the same.